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I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like. The one in my apartment has a “feature” a lot of US thermostats now have, where you set four o

I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like. The one in my apartment has a “feature” a lot of US thermostats now have, where you set four ordered times called wake, leave, return, and sleep and the temperature you want the space in each interval. I know very few people who actually live in a household where everyone wakes, leaves, returns, and sleeps on the same schedule every day. I work from home and personally just want to set a temperature and have the space stay at that temperature indefinitely but this system requires that I tap through and enter the desired temperature four times, while confirming the four intervals. I guess I’d be happier with a more programmable thermostat that I could set to behave like an old school dial thermostat.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Freak_NL 2y ago
Isn't this pretty much what these thermostats already allow? I have a new Honeywell Thermostat which basically does what the twenty years old one it replaced does with a few added conveniences in terms of UI. It has those wake/leave/return/sleep instants for each weekday (but also adds an optional second leave/return pair), and it has an option to override the day programme to 'holiday', which is essentially an eighth programmable weekday you can activate at any time. Your use case is possible with that. Just set the standard program to 15°C, and activate the holiday set to whatever you need whenever you want. Configure it to go to 15°C at some sensible time in the evening, so it won't go on even if you forget it.
- meindnoch 2y ago
  15 C is very cold. Are you American?
  - Freak_NL 2y ago
    15°C would be the standard setting of 'no heating' (just keep the house warm enough to avoid mould and such). The 'holiday' programme would be 21°C or whatever is desired. That would effectively turn the thermostat into one where turn on the heating by putting it in 'holiday' mode, and can turn it off by exiting that mode or just letting it revert to 15°C after 23:00 or so.
xattt 2y ago
My wife and I worked a six-week shift work schedule for a long time. We got second-gen nest thermostats when they first came out (2012) thinking they were neat. Nope! The smart learning feature was the biggest pain in the ass. You’d be sleeping during the day for a night shift, only to find yourself freezing because it decided no one was home.
- uptown 2y ago
  You can turn off the feature that changes temp based on presence. Or disable dynamic scheduling altogether.
  - xattt 2y ago
    I ended up having to manually changing the schedule week-to-week.
- JoshTriplett 2y ago
  I like the Nest, but I absolutely turned off all the "smart" features and just set a fixed temperature range and change it when desired.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  Mine works OK as long as presence detection (using people's phones and Google Home) is operating correctly. Everyone leaves, and the thermostat adjusts. Someone comes home (or walks in front of it), and it goes back to the normal setpoint. Sounds easy. Isn't always easy. The reliability of this seems to be highly dependent on the phone(s) themselves simply succeeding at not killing useful processes. Overall, I'm not entirely displeased with it. I procured it very inexpensively by buying it from one of my energy provider's online store in conjunction with a substantial rebate from my other energy provider. I'm confident that it paid for itself very quickly, and it's nice to be able to set the thermostat remotely. My lament is that there seems to be approximately nothing I can do to improve the presence detection function without gymnastics or spending real money. What I want is a local API that I can enable and do stuff with; what I get is "Good luck! Have you tried buying Nest Protect subscription motion detectors? (Oh lol, we stopped selling those.)" (I'm OK with the privacy and security aspects of what I'm trying to do. I'm not OK with having a connected device that I can't bend to my will. I'm even less OK with more recurring expenses. The next thermostat I buy will have local control over the LAN, but it probably won't pay for itself quite as quickly as this one did.) [note: I've never played with the auto-schedule "learning" function at all. It always seemed like a complete waste of time, since I for one do not have a regular schedule.]
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
I'm still of the opinion that a dial works best. Especially in modern homes (in Europe at least), there seems to be a school of thought that you should just leave your thermostat at the same temperature at all times - the theory being that warming up a cold house in the morning costs more energy than maintaining a stable temperature. Anyway, my ideal setup would be to install 'smart' thermostat taps on every radiator in the house, either manually turn them down when you're not in the room or have them automatically detect activity or open windows and adjust accordingly. But each one has the authority to trigger the central boiler if needs be, instead of only the master thermostat in the living room.
- vladms 2y ago
  I think in real life there are more constraints. For example there are people that sleep better at a lower temperature than the daily one (so leaving the thermostat at the same temperature it's a minus for them). Regarding "what is better" from energy efficiency, I would prefer a system that "check it" because my guess is that it depends a lot based on the individual situation. I mean everybody is going crazy over "IA" but a couple of sensors and a system smart enough to adjust your usage based on your particular situation and preferences (like "eco", etc.) is an exception.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    In slightly cooler climates, the answer for sleep is to open windows. This works in much of Europe, even through summer. But of course, not really feasible in Atlanta or Phoenix. Nighttime temps are too warm.
    - deno 2y ago
      Open windows in a city often means you are invinting in pollution, both air and noise.
      - JoshTriplett 2y ago
        Exactly. Current HVAC systems have extensive filtration; some HVAC systems have HEPA filters.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
The obvious solution is a "wake time" of 8 am, "leave time" of 8:01, "return" 8:02, "sleep" 8:03. Then just set the sleep temperature to your desired temp and the remaining ones to something reasonably close, or if it doesn't automatically switch between heating and air conditioning, set it for the no-op for the season (i.e. the highest possible temp in summer, and the lowest possible in winter) for those three minutes.
bob1029 2y ago
> I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats/non-programmable-thermostats/pro-3000-1-heat-1-cool-non-programmable-digital-thermostat-th3110d1008-u/ https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats...
ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
> I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like. As you go on to describe, there probably isn't one.
542354234235 2y ago
I have an Ecobee and I like it. It comes standard with Home, Away, and Sleep but you can put in as many or as few as you want. You can manually change the temp and you can also set how long you want your manual temp to “stick”. Either until you cancel it, or until the next preprogrammed change. I like it cooler at night, so I have it change temp around my normal bedtime, which includes if I adjusted the daytime temp because I don’t want to have to remember to change it back myself, that’s why I have a smart thermostat. It detects when I leave the house and sets it to away, because I don’t need it running as if I am at home. If I go on vacation I can set it to keep the house safe, but not comfortable, and change back around the time my flight lands. Unless you have a crazy random schedule, or you want the temp the same whether you are asleep, awake, or not at home, or i guess if you have different temp preferences every day. Otherwise you can program in a basic schedule and just adjust manually as needed. Nothing stops you from changing the temp manually if you wake up an hour early, but if you wake up on time, then you don’t even have to think about it.
quickthrowman 2y ago
> ideal one-size fits all thermostat The round Honeywell electromechanical thermostat with a bimetallic strip, invented in 1953: https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-round-manual-thermostat-ct87n1001.htm https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-roun... 24VAC, dead simple, and reliable. My family’s lake house has 50+ year old Honeywell round thermostats still in service.
Suppafly 2y ago
>I guess I’d be happier with a more programmable thermostat that I could set to behave like an old school dial thermostat. I honestly prefer the older type. Ours is programable, but we just don't program it and always just set it to the temp we want. If we are feeling a little chilly on a cold day, we'll bump it up a degree, or down a degree when it's particularly sunny and everyone is feeling warm.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Freak_NL 2y ago

Isn't this pretty much what these thermostats already allow? I have a new Honeywell Thermostat which basically does what the twenty years old one it replaced does with a few added conveniences in terms of UI. It has those wake/leave/return/sleep instants for each weekday (but also adds an optional second leave/return pair), and it has an option to override the day programme to 'holiday', which is essentially an eighth programmable weekday you can activate at any time. Your use case is possible with that. Just set the standard program to 15°C, and activate the holiday set to whatever you need whenever you want. Configure it to go to 15°C at some sensible time in the evening, so it won't go on even if you forget it.

meindnoch 2y ago
15 C is very cold. Are you American?
- Freak_NL 2y ago
  15°C would be the standard setting of 'no heating' (just keep the house warm enough to avoid mould and such). The 'holiday' programme would be 21°C or whatever is desired. That would effectively turn the thermostat into one where turn on the heating by putting it in 'holiday' mode, and can turn it off by exiting that mode or just letting it revert to 15°C after 23:00 or so.

xattt 2y ago

My wife and I worked a six-week shift work schedule for a long time. We got second-gen nest thermostats when they first came out (2012) thinking they were neat. Nope! The smart learning feature was the biggest pain in the ass. You’d be sleeping during the day for a night shift, only to find yourself freezing because it decided no one was home.

uptown 2y ago
You can turn off the feature that changes temp based on presence. Or disable dynamic scheduling altogether.
- xattt 2y ago
  I ended up having to manually changing the schedule week-to-week.
JoshTriplett 2y ago
I like the Nest, but I absolutely turned off all the "smart" features and just set a fixed temperature range and change it when desired.
ssl-3 2y ago
Mine works OK as long as presence detection (using people's phones and Google Home) is operating correctly. Everyone leaves, and the thermostat adjusts. Someone comes home (or walks in front of it), and it goes back to the normal setpoint. Sounds easy. Isn't always easy. The reliability of this seems to be highly dependent on the phone(s) themselves simply succeeding at not killing useful processes. Overall, I'm not entirely displeased with it. I procured it very inexpensively by buying it from one of my energy provider's online store in conjunction with a substantial rebate from my other energy provider. I'm confident that it paid for itself very quickly, and it's nice to be able to set the thermostat remotely. My lament is that there seems to be approximately nothing I can do to improve the presence detection function without gymnastics or spending real money. What I want is a local API that I can enable and do stuff with; what I get is "Good luck! Have you tried buying Nest Protect subscription motion detectors? (Oh lol, we stopped selling those.)" (I'm OK with the privacy and security aspects of what I'm trying to do. I'm not OK with having a connected device that I can't bend to my will. I'm even less OK with more recurring expenses. The next thermostat I buy will have local control over the LAN, but it probably won't pay for itself quite as quickly as this one did.) [note: I've never played with the auto-schedule "learning" function at all. It always seemed like a complete waste of time, since I for one do not have a regular schedule.]

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

I'm still of the opinion that a dial works best. Especially in modern homes (in Europe at least), there seems to be a school of thought that you should just leave your thermostat at the same temperature at all times - the theory being that warming up a cold house in the morning costs more energy than maintaining a stable temperature. Anyway, my ideal setup would be to install 'smart' thermostat taps on every radiator in the house, either manually turn them down when you're not in the room or have them automatically detect activity or open windows and adjust accordingly. But each one has the authority to trigger the central boiler if needs be, instead of only the master thermostat in the living room.

vladms 2y ago
I think in real life there are more constraints. For example there are people that sleep better at a lower temperature than the daily one (so leaving the thermostat at the same temperature it's a minus for them). Regarding "what is better" from energy efficiency, I would prefer a system that "check it" because my guess is that it depends a lot based on the individual situation. I mean everybody is going crazy over "IA" but a couple of sensors and a system smart enough to adjust your usage based on your particular situation and preferences (like "eco", etc.) is an exception.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  In slightly cooler climates, the answer for sleep is to open windows. This works in much of Europe, even through summer. But of course, not really feasible in Atlanta or Phoenix. Nighttime temps are too warm.
  - deno 2y ago
    Open windows in a city often means you are invinting in pollution, both air and noise.
    - JoshTriplett 2y ago
      Exactly. Current HVAC systems have extensive filtration; some HVAC systems have HEPA filters.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago

The obvious solution is a "wake time" of 8 am, "leave time" of 8:01, "return" 8:02, "sleep" 8:03. Then just set the sleep temperature to your desired temp and the remaining ones to something reasonably close, or if it doesn't automatically switch between heating and air conditioning, set it for the no-op for the season (i.e. the highest possible temp in summer, and the lowest possible in winter) for those three minutes.

bob1029 2y ago

> I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats/non-programmable-thermostats/pro-3000-1-heat-1-cool-non-programmable-digital-thermostat-th3110d1008-u/ https://www.honeywellhome.com/us/en/products/air/thermostats...

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago

> I wonder what the ideal one-size fits all thermostat looks like. As you go on to describe, there probably isn't one.

542354234235 2y ago

I have an Ecobee and I like it. It comes standard with Home, Away, and Sleep but you can put in as many or as few as you want. You can manually change the temp and you can also set how long you want your manual temp to “stick”. Either until you cancel it, or until the next preprogrammed change. I like it cooler at night, so I have it change temp around my normal bedtime, which includes if I adjusted the daytime temp because I don’t want to have to remember to change it back myself, that’s why I have a smart thermostat. It detects when I leave the house and sets it to away, because I don’t need it running as if I am at home. If I go on vacation I can set it to keep the house safe, but not comfortable, and change back around the time my flight lands. Unless you have a crazy random schedule, or you want the temp the same whether you are asleep, awake, or not at home, or i guess if you have different temp preferences every day. Otherwise you can program in a basic schedule and just adjust manually as needed. Nothing stops you from changing the temp manually if you wake up an hour early, but if you wake up on time, then you don’t even have to think about it.

quickthrowman 2y ago

> ideal one-size fits all thermostat The round Honeywell electromechanical thermostat with a bimetallic strip, invented in 1953: https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-round-manual-thermostat-ct87n1001.htm https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-roun... 24VAC, dead simple, and reliable. My family’s lake house has 50+ year old Honeywell round thermostats still in service.

Suppafly 2y ago

>I guess I’d be happier with a more programmable thermostat that I could set to behave like an old school dial thermostat. I honestly prefer the older type. Ours is programable, but we just don't program it and always just set it to the temp we want. If we are feeling a little chilly on a cold day, we'll bump it up a degree, or down a degree when it's particularly sunny and everyone is feeling warm.