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> Something needs to be done about these countries and their resources - they deserve to be utilized in a way benefitting all citizens, not just the junta in po

by gessha 2y ago

> Something needs to be done about these countries and their resources - they deserve to be utilized in a way benefitting all citizens, not just the junta in power. This utilitarian way of thinking mixed with a lot of racism is what led to colonists performing asinine acts of barbaric cruelty like slavery, massacres, etc. If I were to look up terms related to this type of thinking I would look up: Neo-colonialism, savior complex, and paternalism. > Unfortunately, democracy doesn't come on its own Who started the first democracies on Earth, aliens?

mschuster91 2y ago
> Who started the first democracies on Earth, aliens? The people - but at least back then, the rulers only had knives, swords, horses and maybe early versions of guns at their disposal. Today's rulers? They enjoy grenades, insane explosives, machine guns, sniper rifles, tear gas, tanks and the most capable surveillance gear that money can buy. It has gone exponentially harder to depose dictators, and outright impossible without serious amounts of external help. IMHO, it should be the responsibility of all rich, Western democracies to aid any and all democratic movements and to safeguard them against reactionary movements.
- gessha 2y ago
  > They enjoy grenades, insane explosives, machine guns, sniper rifles, tear gas, tanks and the most capable surveillance gear that money can buy. Counter argument is it’s incredibly cheap and easy to kill somebody in today’s age. Guns are accesible, Americans will literally sell anyone their guns. Search engines can find you ways to synthesize explosives and other nasty stuff. > IMHO, it should be the responsibility of all rich, Western democracies to aid any and all democratic movements and to safeguard them against reactionary movements. Same response to this sentiment as my previous comment. Please respect other countries’ sovereignty.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Counter argument is it’s incredibly cheap and easy to kill somebody in today’s age. Guns are accesible, Americans will literally sell anyone their guns. At scale, yes. But if you're some deep in the bush village in Africa you probably don't have the money to pay for American guns, and even if you had the money you'd still have to get the guns into the country and that will raise eyebrows. That's why many of the rebel groups in Africa are somewhat Islamist-affiliated, be it AQIM, IS or whatever - they got oil sheiks and their nation states backing their efforts. What remains is funded by Russia via its convenient Wagner proxy, or by looting some sort of natural resource. But there are no relevant actors funded by any Western nation, no movements for democracy ever since the Arab Spring. We're leaving Africa to Russia and Islamists - not a good thing if you ask me! And South America has it even worse with all the narco cartels. Some of them got more money at their disposal than the legitimate government. > Search engines can find you ways to synthesize explosives and other nasty stuff. These need precursor chemicals (which are, I'll admit that, available if you know someone in China or India), but again, getting hold of these in relevant scales to matter will raise eyebrows. > Please respect other countries’ sovereignty. I only respect democratically backed governments. Authoritarians of any kind - military juntas, warlords, religion-based dictatorships, ordinary kleptocrats, why should I have any respect for those who enjoy no backing of their populace? Why should anyone have respect for those who loot the natural resources and exploit the labor of those without power?
    - gessha 2y ago
      Western countries have routinely undermined democratically elected governments - Iran, Chile, so I don’t think they’re the paragons of values you think they are. Why should non-rich/non-western countries respect anything that the west does except for fear of military intervention?
- mmooss 2y ago
  Democracies have spread faster in since the Cold War than at any time in history.

by gessha 2y ago

mschuster91 2y ago

> Who started the first democracies on Earth, aliens? The people - but at least back then, the rulers only had knives, swords, horses and maybe early versions of guns at their disposal. Today's rulers? They enjoy grenades, insane explosives, machine guns, sniper rifles, tear gas, tanks and the most capable surveillance gear that money can buy. It has gone exponentially harder to depose dictators, and outright impossible without serious amounts of external help. IMHO, it should be the responsibility of all rich, Western democracies to aid any and all democratic movements and to safeguard them against reactionary movements.

gessha 2y ago
> They enjoy grenades, insane explosives, machine guns, sniper rifles, tear gas, tanks and the most capable surveillance gear that money can buy. Counter argument is it’s incredibly cheap and easy to kill somebody in today’s age. Guns are accesible, Americans will literally sell anyone their guns. Search engines can find you ways to synthesize explosives and other nasty stuff. > IMHO, it should be the responsibility of all rich, Western democracies to aid any and all democratic movements and to safeguard them against reactionary movements. Same response to this sentiment as my previous comment. Please respect other countries’ sovereignty.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Counter argument is it’s incredibly cheap and easy to kill somebody in today’s age. Guns are accesible, Americans will literally sell anyone their guns. At scale, yes. But if you're some deep in the bush village in Africa you probably don't have the money to pay for American guns, and even if you had the money you'd still have to get the guns into the country and that will raise eyebrows. That's why many of the rebel groups in Africa are somewhat Islamist-affiliated, be it AQIM, IS or whatever - they got oil sheiks and their nation states backing their efforts. What remains is funded by Russia via its convenient Wagner proxy, or by looting some sort of natural resource. But there are no relevant actors funded by any Western nation, no movements for democracy ever since the Arab Spring. We're leaving Africa to Russia and Islamists - not a good thing if you ask me! And South America has it even worse with all the narco cartels. Some of them got more money at their disposal than the legitimate government. > Search engines can find you ways to synthesize explosives and other nasty stuff. These need precursor chemicals (which are, I'll admit that, available if you know someone in China or India), but again, getting hold of these in relevant scales to matter will raise eyebrows. > Please respect other countries’ sovereignty. I only respect democratically backed governments. Authoritarians of any kind - military juntas, warlords, religion-based dictatorships, ordinary kleptocrats, why should I have any respect for those who enjoy no backing of their populace? Why should anyone have respect for those who loot the natural resources and exploit the labor of those without power?
  - gessha 2y ago
    Western countries have routinely undermined democratically elected governments - Iran, Chile, so I don’t think they’re the paragons of values you think they are. Why should non-rich/non-western countries respect anything that the west does except for fear of military intervention?
mmooss 2y ago
Democracies have spread faster in since the Cold War than at any time in history.