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> overall energy demand in the U.S. continues to grow year over year. That probably not unique to the US, but I wonder what that energy is used for. Our appli

> overall energy demand in the U.S. continues to grow year over year. That probably not unique to the US, but I wonder what that energy is used for. Our appliances use less and less electricity, our homes are better insulated, cars are more fuel efficient, so what is using that additional energy?

inetknght 2y ago
Those new-fangled AI things use a lot of power.
- floxy 2y ago
  Server farms in general? Up to 46% of Virginia's electric consumption projected to be data centers in 2030: https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 ...see Table A1 on PDF page 29.
bornfreddy 2y ago
Bitcoin? "AI"? If this is just electric energy, EV?
stevenwoo 2y ago
It does not attempt to explain it but this lists how much major sectors use: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ This data presentation shows it seems to have broadly plateaued in last few years with some fluctuations that do not indicate an upward trend as of 2023.
mulmen 2y ago
I don’t know but there has been a lot of manufacturing construction after the pandemic. Manufacturing construction has doubled since 2021 to the highest levels since 2005. Presumably these projects consume power for both construction and operation. There’s probably also some amount of new industry becoming viable as energy prices fall. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-th...
vikramkr 2y ago
Electrification (converting things that ran on fossil fuels to electricity) is a net decrease in energy demand but massive increase in electricity demand if you're looking at electricity specifically. Past few years have also had a ton of growth in data centers and manufacturing investments. According to the EIA, they're projecting a decrease in energy demand over the next few years: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65004 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65004
hylaride 2y ago
Commercial and industrial use, as well as increased AC usage. I'm not sure what percentage of the electric market is now for charging cars, but it's not zero. You see similar use patterns for water. Per capita water use has gone down in many urban areas, especially places like California over the past few decades. You see hard restrictions on watering lawns, showers, toilet sizes, etc. But agriculture just sucks up the rest.
tmnvix 2y ago
> cars are more fuel efficient This is true when comparing the same class of car to previous models, but is it still true overall when we consider the shift to larger vehicles? The Toyota Camry from 1994 is still more efficient than the current 2024 top selling Ford F150. Jevons paradox is worth considering when reading these stories of increased renewable energy generation and falling prices.
- rcyeh 2y ago
  Yes! Automobile fuel efficiency is now probably the classical example of Jevon's paradox: some cars are more fuel-efficient; and (therefore?) we in the United States are driving 35% more miles each year in 2024 (3.3e12) than in 1994 (2.4e12). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA Which makes our total gasoline consumption about the same as or higher than the 1990s, within 10% or so: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=C100000001&f=A https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=C...
globular-toast 2y ago
More appliances used more often, bigger homes, bigger cars, longer and more frequent trips.

inetknght 2y ago

Those new-fangled AI things use a lot of power.

floxy 2y ago
Server farms in general? Up to 46% of Virginia's electric consumption projected to be data centers in 2030: https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 ...see Table A1 on PDF page 29.

bornfreddy 2y ago

Bitcoin? "AI"? If this is just electric energy, EV?

stevenwoo 2y ago

It does not attempt to explain it but this lists how much major sectors use: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ This data presentation shows it seems to have broadly plateaued in last few years with some fluctuations that do not indicate an upward trend as of 2023.

mulmen 2y ago

I don’t know but there has been a lot of manufacturing construction after the pandemic. Manufacturing construction has doubled since 2021 to the highest levels since 2005. Presumably these projects consume power for both construction and operation. There’s probably also some amount of new industry becoming viable as energy prices fall. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-th...

vikramkr 2y ago

Electrification (converting things that ran on fossil fuels to electricity) is a net decrease in energy demand but massive increase in electricity demand if you're looking at electricity specifically. Past few years have also had a ton of growth in data centers and manufacturing investments. According to the EIA, they're projecting a decrease in energy demand over the next few years: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65004 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65004

hylaride 2y ago

Commercial and industrial use, as well as increased AC usage. I'm not sure what percentage of the electric market is now for charging cars, but it's not zero. You see similar use patterns for water. Per capita water use has gone down in many urban areas, especially places like California over the past few decades. You see hard restrictions on watering lawns, showers, toilet sizes, etc. But agriculture just sucks up the rest.

tmnvix 2y ago

> cars are more fuel efficient This is true when comparing the same class of car to previous models, but is it still true overall when we consider the shift to larger vehicles? The Toyota Camry from 1994 is still more efficient than the current 2024 top selling Ford F150. Jevons paradox is worth considering when reading these stories of increased renewable energy generation and falling prices.

rcyeh 2y ago
Yes! Automobile fuel efficiency is now probably the classical example of Jevon's paradox: some cars are more fuel-efficient; and (therefore?) we in the United States are driving 35% more miles each year in 2024 (3.3e12) than in 1994 (2.4e12). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M12MTVUSM227NFWA Which makes our total gasoline consumption about the same as or higher than the 1990s, within 10% or so: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=C100000001&f=A https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=C...

globular-toast 2y ago

More appliances used more often, bigger homes, bigger cars, longer and more frequent trips.