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I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've went through the process to cancel an uber one trial recently, and I would say it's not anywhere near "23 screens". May

by gruez 2y ago

I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've went through the process to cancel an uber one trial recently, and I would say it's not anywhere near "23 screens". Maybe the user in question got unlucky and got hit with all the A/B trials, and they're being super generous with what counts as a "screen", but the process was relatively painless.

cogman10 2y ago
What was the process? In my mind it should be something like 3 or 4 screens/prompts max. Account (1) -> Cancel (2) -> Are you sure (3) -> Why did you cancel (4).
- gruez 2y ago
  The complaint has some screenshots starting at page 15, which I think is representative of the cancellation process I went through. If you're being super generous (ie. start counting from you first launched the app, and also scrolling down as a "screen"), I can count 9-10 screens. I'm not sure how you can get 23.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Annoying, but doable. The biggest issue is the "you can't cancel within 48 hours" screen which is BS.
- scoofy 2y ago
  I’ve literally experienced (not with Uber, probably around 2010): 1: Account 2: Cancel 3: Call this number. 4: Call number. 5: Welcome to Customer Service press… … …press 9 to cancel. 6: We need to confirm who you are. Give birth date, etc. 7: Are you sure? 8: Agent gets on the line. 9: Why do you want to cancel? 10: We are offering you a discount to continue and not cancel, how about that? 11: Cancel 12: Are you sure again? (This time for real) 13: Cancelled, but we are offering you a BIGGER discou… this is when I hang up.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >3: Call this number. For Uber? In the handful of times I've canceled uber one trials I've never seen this. It's always through the app. Not even the FTC complaint alleges this.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      Are you in Cali? They have a state law that says "if you can sign up online you have to be able to cancel online". I ran into this with a NYTimes subscription I tried to cancel. They detected I wasn't in a state with such protections and removed the cancellation options while not providing a way to cancel. Made things real hard to shutdown.
      - NoTeslaThrow 2y ago
        Presumably they're specifically referring to uber rather than the broader conversation about dark patterns in canceling. I, too, remember how hard it was to cancel ZipCar—I think I just ended up closing the credit account it was backed by because I couldn't successfully navigate the labyrinth of phone-based customer support to cancel.
    - scoofy 2y ago
      I'm saying in general. Dark patterns in general get more ridiculous than most people can imagine.
  - tomp 2y ago
    Last time I tried to cancel a service (mobile phone, Three, in the UK) they offered me the service for 5£ (it's normally 20£ or more). I should (pretend to) cancel more often!
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Seems like a good job for a bot…
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
ceejayoz 2y ago
I mean, in my case, I was literally forbidden from canceling. I got a screen saying I couldn’t cancel within 24 hours after the monthly renewal. Very clearly intended to combat “oh shit I need to cancel that one” when the charge shows up in hopes you forget again.
- rideontime 2y ago
  I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I literally can't think of another reason they would do this.
  - acid__ 2y ago
    I can, I’ve written a billing system before (unfortunately). There’s a lot of annoying math/edge cases and systems to sync between. While I never implemented a restriction like this, it would have prevented a lot of weird bugs/customer support issues and kept the underlying code much simpler. (Annoying math = time zones, prorations, discounts, billing cycle anchors, etc. see the “falsehoods programmers believe about X” series) (Systems to sync between = internal DBs, billing APIs, payment processors, etc.)
    - steveBK123 2y ago
      I mean sure, I get it, but companies like Uber leave edge cases like that out when it hurts them (customers cancelling) but move heaven & earth to remove them when it helps them (I bet its easy to re-join within 24 hours of cancelling?).
- radicaldreamer 2y ago
  Pretty sure that’s straight up illegal in many jurisdictions
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Uber is clever enough to know which jurisdictions and make it as annoying as as likely legally enforceable by state..
arrosenberg 2y ago
Might be because of your location. Some governments like California have regulated these types of things with a law that says you must be allowed to cancel in the same manner you signed up.

by gruez 2y ago

cogman10 2y ago

What was the process? In my mind it should be something like 3 or 4 screens/prompts max. Account (1) -> Cancel (2) -> Are you sure (3) -> Why did you cancel (4).

gruez 2y ago
The complaint has some screenshots starting at page 15, which I think is representative of the cancellation process I went through. If you're being super generous (ie. start counting from you first launched the app, and also scrolling down as a "screen"), I can count 9-10 screens. I'm not sure how you can get 23.
- cogman10 2y ago
  Annoying, but doable. The biggest issue is the "you can't cancel within 48 hours" screen which is BS.
scoofy 2y ago
I’ve literally experienced (not with Uber, probably around 2010): 1: Account 2: Cancel 3: Call this number. 4: Call number. 5: Welcome to Customer Service press… … …press 9 to cancel. 6: We need to confirm who you are. Give birth date, etc. 7: Are you sure? 8: Agent gets on the line. 9: Why do you want to cancel? 10: We are offering you a discount to continue and not cancel, how about that? 11: Cancel 12: Are you sure again? (This time for real) 13: Cancelled, but we are offering you a BIGGER discou… this is when I hang up.
- gruez 2y ago
  >3: Call this number. For Uber? In the handful of times I've canceled uber one trials I've never seen this. It's always through the app. Not even the FTC complaint alleges this.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Are you in Cali? They have a state law that says "if you can sign up online you have to be able to cancel online". I ran into this with a NYTimes subscription I tried to cancel. They detected I wasn't in a state with such protections and removed the cancellation options while not providing a way to cancel. Made things real hard to shutdown.
    - NoTeslaThrow 2y ago
      Presumably they're specifically referring to uber rather than the broader conversation about dark patterns in canceling. I, too, remember how hard it was to cancel ZipCar—I think I just ended up closing the credit account it was backed by because I couldn't successfully navigate the labyrinth of phone-based customer support to cancel.
  - scoofy 2y ago
    I'm saying in general. Dark patterns in general get more ridiculous than most people can imagine.
- tomp 2y ago
  Last time I tried to cancel a service (mobile phone, Three, in the UK) they offered me the service for 5£ (it's normally 20£ or more). I should (pretend to) cancel more often!
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Seems like a good job for a bot…
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago

ceejayoz 2y ago

I mean, in my case, I was literally forbidden from canceling. I got a screen saying I couldn’t cancel within 24 hours after the monthly renewal. Very clearly intended to combat “oh shit I need to cancel that one” when the charge shows up in hopes you forget again.

rideontime 2y ago
I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I literally can't think of another reason they would do this.
- acid__ 2y ago
  I can, I’ve written a billing system before (unfortunately). There’s a lot of annoying math/edge cases and systems to sync between. While I never implemented a restriction like this, it would have prevented a lot of weird bugs/customer support issues and kept the underlying code much simpler. (Annoying math = time zones, prorations, discounts, billing cycle anchors, etc. see the “falsehoods programmers believe about X” series) (Systems to sync between = internal DBs, billing APIs, payment processors, etc.)
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    I mean sure, I get it, but companies like Uber leave edge cases like that out when it hurts them (customers cancelling) but move heaven & earth to remove them when it helps them (I bet its easy to re-join within 24 hours of cancelling?).
radicaldreamer 2y ago
Pretty sure that’s straight up illegal in many jurisdictions
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Uber is clever enough to know which jurisdictions and make it as annoying as as likely legally enforceable by state..

arrosenberg 2y ago

Might be because of your location. Some governments like California have regulated these types of things with a law that says you must be allowed to cancel in the same manner you signed up.