5 ms·
I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word again
by lr4444lr 1y ago
I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo:
“If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction.
He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”[0]
[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-pope-francis-says-those-who-ridicule-others-religions-should-expect-a-punch-9980192.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebd...
- kashunstva 1y ago> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it, or miss a note in performance. The pope’s threat of physical intervention himself seems at odds with the teachings of his own faith, too, as I understand them. Turn the other cheek, and all. But that would be for adherents to say for sure.
- mantas 1y agoI didn’t hear from him any call-to-arms to defend Christianity from those who keep making fun of it left and right. Be it other religious faiths or quasi-religious political movements. His actions seemed the opposite tbh.
- angra_mainyu 1y agoLiterally. As Christians are being massacred in Africa at the hands of muslims, as Christianity is besieged, all he did was simp for one group in specific and scold everyone else. Even scolded Greece for not wanting to share the same fate as some Western European countries.
- atrus 1y agoI think there's an implied "and not expect a response" there. If you insult unhinged people (and people who kill over a mere 'offense' to their religion are unhinged), don't be surprised when you receive an unhinged response back.
- kelnos 1y agoSo we should all be chilled and silent, because there are unhinged people who might retaliate far out of proportion to anything we might do or say? That's no way to live.
- gwbas1c 1y agoEdit, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspiracist/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspi... That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview.
- joaopaulomcc 1y agoI believe that in the incident you referring to, it was Buzz Aldrin who did the punching. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspiracist/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/buzz-aldrin-punched-conspi...
- wymerica 1y agoThat was Buzz Aldrin
- echoangle 1y ago> Remember, a judge let Neil Armstrong off for punching a moon landing denier in the face due to persistent taunting. That didn’t happen. The person you mean was Buzz Aldrin and it looks like there weren’t even charges filed, and there was no judge involved.
- tehlike 1y ago> That being said, as an American, the culture of mocking and gracefully learning from being mocked runs deep in my blood. I don't know if others share that same worldview. This is quickly getting forgotten.
- diggan 1y ago> as an American [...] I don't know if others share that same worldview. I'm far from American, but have the same "blood", but I think it has nothing to do with being American/Swedish/Spanish/whatever, some people have different personalities, upbringings and strengths/weaknesses simply. Americans aren't "tougher-skinned" by default or anything, at least I didn't get that experience from interacting with Americans.
- boredhedgehog 1y ago> The pope’s threat of physical intervention himself seems at odds with the teachings of his own faith, too, as I understand them. Turn the other cheek, and all. The quote in question talks about your cheek, not your mother's or anyone else's. In many circumstances, you're not as free to forego the defense of others as you are your own.
- pseudalopex 1y agoPunching someone who insulted your mother is escalation. Not defense.
- madcaptenor 1y agoThis checks out - he worked as a bouncer at a nightclub to put himself through seminary.
- mantas 1y ago[flagged]
- sneak 1y agoOur leaders should not be normalizing or condoning responding to words with violence. Such an attitude is abhorrent and shameful.
- Telemakhos 1y agoI think that article lost a bit of nuance somewhere. The Pope was specifically defending the right of Muslims to protest peacefully against deliberate insults to their religion: > Francis spoke about the Paris attacks while on his way to the Philippines, where around 1,500 Muslims protested yesterday against the depictions of the Prophet in the satirical French magazine Charlie Hebdo. [0] He also explicitly condemned violence: > Francis insisted that it was an “aberration” to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence. [0] So, he wasn't justifying the attack on the Charlie Hebdo office. [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-pope-francis-says-those-who-ridicule-others-religions-should-expect-a-punch-9980192.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebd...
- wat10000 1y agoThat’s reprehensible, but also refreshingly open-minded. It shows an awareness that other religions deserve an equal footing to his own. I prefer this over the nuts who decry Sharia law while wanting to implement a Christian equivalent.
- rglullis 1y agoAny Christian fundamentalist who advocates for its religion to become law is a bad Christian who never understood the lesson behind "Render unto Caesar...". Now, contrast with Islamic teachings. Not every Muslim will advocate for Sharia, but there is a non-negligible part of them (leadership included) who think that not advocating for Sharia is a sin.
- wat10000 1y agoWhat’s the contrast? In both cases, there are good people who understand that their religion restricts them, not others, and there are bad people who think the government should enforce their religion.
- rglullis 1y agoWhat part of Islam actively promotes separation of church and state? What country with a majority Islamic population is currently going through a secularization process?
- wat10000 1y agoWhat part of Christianity actively promotes it? There’s that one line, which meaning is debated, in a book full of stories about religious governments. In any case, I only care about the practicalities. In terms of what they try to achieve, there’s no real difference between the Christian and Muslim dominionists.
- rglullis 1y ago> There’s that one line. And centuries of liberal democracies where the church was just one institution that had no direct rule over its subjects?
- olivierestsage 1y agoI'm not a Christian, but one of the main questions I have, reading this, is whether Francis would have had the same reaction if Catholics had been the ones doing the massacring after their faith was insulted. Something tells me that he wouldn't, and I think that's the most troubling part.
- angra_mainyu 1y agoHit the nail on the head.
- angra_mainyu 1y agoJihadi-sympathizing.... I have no words. No wonder he never cared when muslims murdered Christians in Nigeria this year. Just 50 in Easter.