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One important point that’s not obvious from this article: U.S. pollution from fossil fuels isn’t actually decreasing. From what I understand (and please correc

One important point that’s not obvious from this article: U.S. pollution from fossil fuels isn’t actually decreasing. From what I understand (and please correct me if I’m wrong), overall energy demand in the U.S. continues to grow year over year. Most of the additional energy needed is now being supplied by renewables. So while we’re adding less new pollution—because the new energy is cleaner—we’re still producing the same amount of fossil fuel pollution as before. The baseline pollution hasn’t gone down; we’ve just slowed the rate at which it increases.

wat10000 2y ago
Is that a fact or a supposition based on fossil fuel generation continuing to grow? Pollution produced by fossil fuels isn’t necessarily equal. Modern power plants are significantly less polluting, and gas is much better than coal. If coal continued its decline and newer plants replaced some old ones, you could easily have less total pollution from increased fossil fuels generation.
ZeroGravitas 2y ago
In the US greenhouse gasses are down across a variety of absolute metrics: https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#what-are-the-country-s-annual-co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#what-ar... In the electricity grid specifically they peaked around 2006 and are 15% below 1990 due to switching from coal to gas and introducing renewables What you say is broadly true globally but western nations are mostly on the downslope and the globe as a whole is slowing and hopefully going negative soon.
- tiffanyh 2y ago
  That's one of the most interesting links I've seen in a long time (regardless of subject). Thanks for sharing because it puts things in perspective much easier due to the data it sourced.
  - jmknoll 2y ago
    If you’re convinced by the materials shared, you may want to consider editing your original content. It’s currently the most-upvoted comment, and is materially incorrect.
    - tiffanyh 2y ago
      I'm unable to edit. I did though indicate "please correct me if I'm wrong", in my original post. Which led to this discussion below that I'm sure people then read (like your comment on this sub-post)
Sayrus 2y ago
According to EIA[1] and Wiki[2] fossil fuel electricity production has been rather stable or going slightly down on the last three years. However, US electricity is a small part of the US Energy Consumption. When you take those into account[3], renewables fall from 50% of the energy mix to less than 20% (10% if you don't include nuclear) but overall Fossil fuel usage is stable. The trend is going down if you take a longer time period. [1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/Annual/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/Annual/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit... [3] https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_3.pdf https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_3.pdf
mrweasel 2y ago
> overall energy demand in the U.S. continues to grow year over year. That probably not unique to the US, but I wonder what that energy is used for. Our appliances use less and less electricity, our homes are better insulated, cars are more fuel efficient, so what is using that additional energy?
- inetknght 2y ago
  Those new-fangled AI things use a lot of power.
  - floxy 2y ago
    Server farms in general? Up to 46% of Virginia's electric consumption projected to be data centers in 2030: https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 ...see Table A1 on PDF page 29.
- bornfreddy 2y ago
  Bitcoin? "AI"? If this is just electric energy, EV?
- stevenwoo 2y ago
  It does not attempt to explain it but this lists how much major sectors use: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ This data presentation shows it seems to have broadly plateaued in last few years with some fluctuations that do not indicate an upward trend as of 2023.
- mulmen 2y ago
  I don’t know but there has been a lot of manufacturing construction after the pandemic. Manufacturing construction has doubled since 2021 to the highest levels since 2005. Presumably these projects consume power for both construction and operation. There’s probably also some amount of new industry becoming viable as energy prices fall. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-th...
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Texas Attempt to Kickstart New Gas-Fired Power Is Stumbling - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-05/texas-attempt-to-kickstart-new-gas-fired-power-is-stumbling https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-05/texas-att... | https://archive.today/9jRPq https://archive.today/9jRPq - April 5th, 2025 Solar adds more new capacity to the US grid in 2024 than any energy source in 20 years - https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/solar-new-capacity-us-grid-2024/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/solar-new-capacity-us-grid-20... - March 10th, 2025 US is set to shatter grid battery records this year - https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/chart-us-is-set-to-shatter-grid-battery-records-this-year https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/chart-us... - March 7th, 2025 Solar, battery storage to lead new U.S. generating capacity additions in 2025 - https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586 - February 24th, 2025 https://www.interconnection.fyi/ https://www.interconnection.fyi/ (~1TW of solar in US grid interconnect queues) (it is expected within the next 12 months we arrive at a deployment rate of 1TW/year of global solar PV capacity)
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  I strong suspect that Trump fully intends for tariffs to cripple renewables (they will) and boost oil and gas jobs. The dude is hell bent on returning America to the 1950s.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    Indeed, politicians in the employ of the (traditional) energy sector have gone from mocking renewable projects and decrying them for "requiring subsidies" to demanding their curtailment because they do not. Alberta's government (whose premier is a former oil&gas industry lobbyist) enacted a "moritorium" on new renewables projects a couple years ago because it had the most active investment in that sector in the country (most sunny days, and very windy). After the moritorium was lifted draconian regulations were placed on potential new sites. This was done under the cover of "protecting farmland", but this is in a province with a massive abandoned oil well contamination issue, which the private sector got away with and continues to get away with. And then today/yesterday it came out that the government had hidden the results of public "consultations" on these matters because it was not favourable to them. The problem with oil&gas is it is prone to the development of parasitical/highway-man type relationships, and all sorts of people get rich quick by inserting themselves in the flow and they will not give up this position without a dirty, dirty fight.

wat10000 2y ago

Is that a fact or a supposition based on fossil fuel generation continuing to grow? Pollution produced by fossil fuels isn’t necessarily equal. Modern power plants are significantly less polluting, and gas is much better than coal. If coal continued its decline and newer plants replaced some old ones, you could easily have less total pollution from increased fossil fuels generation.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

In the US greenhouse gasses are down across a variety of absolute metrics: https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#what-are-the-country-s-annual-co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/united-states#what-ar... In the electricity grid specifically they peaked around 2006 and are 15% below 1990 due to switching from coal to gas and introducing renewables What you say is broadly true globally but western nations are mostly on the downslope and the globe as a whole is slowing and hopefully going negative soon.

tiffanyh 2y ago
That's one of the most interesting links I've seen in a long time (regardless of subject). Thanks for sharing because it puts things in perspective much easier due to the data it sourced.
- jmknoll 2y ago
  If you’re convinced by the materials shared, you may want to consider editing your original content. It’s currently the most-upvoted comment, and is materially incorrect.
  - tiffanyh 2y ago
    I'm unable to edit. I did though indicate "please correct me if I'm wrong", in my original post. Which led to this discussion below that I'm sure people then read (like your comment on this sub-post)

Sayrus 2y ago

According to EIA[1] and Wiki[2] fossil fuel electricity production has been rather stable or going slightly down on the last three years. However, US electricity is a small part of the US Energy Consumption. When you take those into account[3], renewables fall from 50% of the energy mix to less than 20% (10% if you don't include nuclear) but overall Fossil fuel usage is stable. The trend is going down if you take a longer time period. [1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/Annual/ https://www.eia.gov/electricity/Annual/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit... [3] https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_3.pdf https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_3.pdf

mrweasel 2y ago

> overall energy demand in the U.S. continues to grow year over year. That probably not unique to the US, but I wonder what that energy is used for. Our appliances use less and less electricity, our homes are better insulated, cars are more fuel efficient, so what is using that additional energy?

inetknght 2y ago
Those new-fangled AI things use a lot of power.
- floxy 2y ago
  Server farms in general? Up to 46% of Virginia's electric consumption projected to be data centers in 2030: https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 https://www.epri.com/research/products/000000003002028905 ...see Table A1 on PDF page 29.
bornfreddy 2y ago
Bitcoin? "AI"? If this is just electric energy, EV?
stevenwoo 2y ago
It does not attempt to explain it but this lists how much major sectors use: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/ This data presentation shows it seems to have broadly plateaued in last few years with some fluctuations that do not indicate an upward trend as of 2023.
mulmen 2y ago
I don’t know but there has been a lot of manufacturing construction after the pandemic. Manufacturing construction has doubled since 2021 to the highest levels since 2005. Presumably these projects consume power for both construction and operation. There’s probably also some amount of new industry becoming viable as energy prices fall. https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-the-boom-in-us-construction-of-manufacturing-facilities https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/unpacking-th...

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Texas Attempt to Kickstart New Gas-Fired Power Is Stumbling - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-05/texas-attempt-to-kickstart-new-gas-fired-power-is-stumbling https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-05/texas-att... | https://archive.today/9jRPq https://archive.today/9jRPq - April 5th, 2025 Solar adds more new capacity to the US grid in 2024 than any energy source in 20 years - https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/solar-new-capacity-us-grid-2024/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/10/solar-new-capacity-us-grid-20... - March 10th, 2025 US is set to shatter grid battery records this year - https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/chart-us-is-set-to-shatter-grid-battery-records-this-year https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/chart-us... - March 7th, 2025 Solar, battery storage to lead new U.S. generating capacity additions in 2025 - https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586 - February 24th, 2025 https://www.interconnection.fyi/ https://www.interconnection.fyi/ (~1TW of solar in US grid interconnect queues) (it is expected within the next 12 months we arrive at a deployment rate of 1TW/year of global solar PV capacity)

Workaccount2 2y ago
I strong suspect that Trump fully intends for tariffs to cripple renewables (they will) and boost oil and gas jobs. The dude is hell bent on returning America to the 1950s.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Indeed, politicians in the employ of the (traditional) energy sector have gone from mocking renewable projects and decrying them for "requiring subsidies" to demanding their curtailment because they do not. Alberta's government (whose premier is a former oil&gas industry lobbyist) enacted a "moritorium" on new renewables projects a couple years ago because it had the most active investment in that sector in the country (most sunny days, and very windy). After the moritorium was lifted draconian regulations were placed on potential new sites. This was done under the cover of "protecting farmland", but this is in a province with a massive abandoned oil well contamination issue, which the private sector got away with and continues to get away with. And then today/yesterday it came out that the government had hidden the results of public "consultations" on these matters because it was not favourable to them. The problem with oil&gas is it is prone to the development of parasitical/highway-man type relationships, and all sorts of people get rich quick by inserting themselves in the flow and they will not give up this position without a dirty, dirty fight.