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Energy is a frustrating topic because people have some very entrenched but uninformed opinions about it, like hte "energy independence" argument. We're clearly

by jmyeet 2y ago

Energy is a frustrating topic because people have some very entrenched but uninformed opinions about it, like hte "energy independence" argument. We're clearly energy independent but people will look to see that we still import oil and natural gas and say we're not. That's a business. Refining is a business. Making LNG is a business. Canada has no real way of exporting oil and natural gas so we buy it, process it and either use it or export it. Another: peak total and per-capita greenhouse gas emissions in the US peaked in about 2007 and has decreased ~10% since then [1]. We still produce the most per-capita so there's a long way to go. China leads the world on renewable energy builds by a mile. It's not even close. Yet their usage of coal is still increasing as is their greenhouse gas emissions (total and per-capita) due to a still industrializing population. Electricity costs continue to increase [2]. Some blame this on renewables. It's not. This is a longstanding trend. It goes beyond inflation though. Utilities are generally regional monopolies. For some reason we've decided that privatizing these is somehow a good idea (it's not). The need for ever-increasing profits just means things will continue to get more expensive. [1]: https://www.wri.org/insights/charts-explain-per-capita-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.wri.org/insights/charts-explain-per-capita-green... [2]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610

EduardoBautista 2y ago
> Canada has no real way of exporting oil and natural gas so we buy it, process it and either use it or export it. Just to be clear, you mean "we" as in the USA? So the USA basically manages the exports of Canadian fossil fuels?
- jmyeet 2y ago
  Yes, I mean the USA. Here's a presentation on the Canadian oil and gas industry [1]. You can see that a very small portion is exported directly. Almost all of it is via pipelines to the USA. This is a huge strategic benefit to the US, which is yet another reason why alienating Canada through tariffs and other policies is such a laughably ignorant and terrible idea. It's also why anyone pointing to non-zero US imports of oil and gas as damning proof of the US not being energy independent is incredibly ill-informed. [1]: https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canadian-Exports-of-Crude-Oil-and-Natural-Gas.pdf https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canadian-Expo...
  - ChoGGi 2y ago
    China is ramping up imports of Canadian crude. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/china-us-canada-oil-trade-war-worsens https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/china-u...
    - jmyeet 2y ago
      I see the announcements of China importing more Canadian oil to be largely performative. Canada lacks the facilities to export oil so they'd have to build them when there are existing piplines that export it to the US. That's a hard to justify expense, particularly because Canada-US relations could change any moment. LNG is even worse because those facilities are expensive. China is going to get its oil from Russia, Iran and Venezuela, like it already does. Russian oil can be imported overland. Sanctions are laughably avoided by simply laundering oil exports through Malaysia and elsewhere [1]. This also suits China's strategic interests of not having a unipolar world. But long-term China seeks to end its dependence on imported oil, just like the US did, except China is doing it with hydro and solar and by decreasing demand by electrifying transportation. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-march-iranian-oil-imports-surge-us-sanctions-fears-2025-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-march-ira...
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        Westridge Marine Terminal back in Burnaby (right outside Vancouver) can handle APAC oil exports. That said, Canada is ambivalent about negotiations with China as much of Canada's automotive industry would be destroyed in a liberalized trade deal with China, just like what happened to Australia after their FTAs with ASEAN, China, India, SK, and Japan. China was also caught trying to influence Canadian elections by the CSIS [0], so trust is limited. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-spies-found-china-interfered-last-two-elections-probe-hears-2024-04-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-spies-found-ch...
      - ChoGGi 2y ago
        > That's a hard to justify expense, particularly because Canada-US relations could change any moment. I don't see relations improving much for at least two years? Building up alternative export capabilities seems a decent way to support the economy. Of course no one really trusts China, but at least you have a reasonable idea of what their plans are.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
> [China] usage of coal is still increasing China's coal usage is down 5% YoY. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/20/chinas-coal-generation-dropped-5-yoy-in-q1-as-electricity-demand-increased/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/20/chinas-coal-generation-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
WillPostForFood 2y ago
According to wikipedia, as of 2023, the US ranks 17th in greenhouse emissions per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...
jillesvangurp 2y ago
China's coal usage is estimated to peak in the next few years and projected to start dropping there as well. Possibly a lot faster than they announced a few years ago as it seems they too underestimated their own ability to do things better and cheaper. A lot of the story in the US is not about the amount of energy used but about the amount of energy wasted. Most of the energy used in the use is simply heating the universe without doing anything useful whatsoever. The US is very inefficient with it's energy usage. Heating/cooling barely insulated buildings, moving around in stupidly heavy vehicles, etc. Per capita, the Chinese are doing way better per kwh. They pay less for and do more with their kwh. Cost of energy in the US has more to do with it's bloated system than with technology. Outdated/broken infrastructure, restrictive/backwards policy, inefficient equipment, obsolete technology, etc.

by jmyeet 2y ago

EduardoBautista 2y ago

> Canada has no real way of exporting oil and natural gas so we buy it, process it and either use it or export it. Just to be clear, you mean "we" as in the USA? So the USA basically manages the exports of Canadian fossil fuels?

jmyeet 2y ago
Yes, I mean the USA. Here's a presentation on the Canadian oil and gas industry [1]. You can see that a very small portion is exported directly. Almost all of it is via pipelines to the USA. This is a huge strategic benefit to the US, which is yet another reason why alienating Canada through tariffs and other policies is such a laughably ignorant and terrible idea. It's also why anyone pointing to non-zero US imports of oil and gas as damning proof of the US not being energy independent is incredibly ill-informed. [1]: https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canadian-Exports-of-Crude-Oil-and-Natural-Gas.pdf https://www.capp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canadian-Expo...
- ChoGGi 2y ago
  China is ramping up imports of Canadian crude. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/china-us-canada-oil-trade-war-worsens https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/china-u...
  - jmyeet 2y ago
    I see the announcements of China importing more Canadian oil to be largely performative. Canada lacks the facilities to export oil so they'd have to build them when there are existing piplines that export it to the US. That's a hard to justify expense, particularly because Canada-US relations could change any moment. LNG is even worse because those facilities are expensive. China is going to get its oil from Russia, Iran and Venezuela, like it already does. Russian oil can be imported overland. Sanctions are laughably avoided by simply laundering oil exports through Malaysia and elsewhere [1]. This also suits China's strategic interests of not having a unipolar world. But long-term China seeks to end its dependence on imported oil, just like the US did, except China is doing it with hydro and solar and by decreasing demand by electrifying transportation. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-march-iranian-oil-imports-surge-us-sanctions-fears-2025-04-10/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-march-ira...
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      Westridge Marine Terminal back in Burnaby (right outside Vancouver) can handle APAC oil exports. That said, Canada is ambivalent about negotiations with China as much of Canada's automotive industry would be destroyed in a liberalized trade deal with China, just like what happened to Australia after their FTAs with ASEAN, China, India, SK, and Japan. China was also caught trying to influence Canadian elections by the CSIS [0], so trust is limited. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-spies-found-china-interfered-last-two-elections-probe-hears-2024-04-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-spies-found-ch...
    - ChoGGi 2y ago
      > That's a hard to justify expense, particularly because Canada-US relations could change any moment. I don't see relations improving much for at least two years? Building up alternative export capabilities seems a decent way to support the economy. Of course no one really trusts China, but at least you have a reasonable idea of what their plans are.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

> [China] usage of coal is still increasing China's coal usage is down 5% YoY. https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/20/chinas-coal-generation-dropped-5-yoy-in-q1-as-electricity-demand-increased/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/20/chinas-coal-generation-...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

WillPostForFood 2y ago

According to wikipedia, as of 2023, the US ranks 17th in greenhouse emissions per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...

jillesvangurp 2y ago

China's coal usage is estimated to peak in the next few years and projected to start dropping there as well. Possibly a lot faster than they announced a few years ago as it seems they too underestimated their own ability to do things better and cheaper. A lot of the story in the US is not about the amount of energy used but about the amount of energy wasted. Most of the energy used in the use is simply heating the universe without doing anything useful whatsoever. The US is very inefficient with it's energy usage. Heating/cooling barely insulated buildings, moving around in stupidly heavy vehicles, etc. Per capita, the Chinese are doing way better per kwh. They pay less for and do more with their kwh. Cost of energy in the US has more to do with it's bloated system than with technology. Outdated/broken infrastructure, restrictive/backwards policy, inefficient equipment, obsolete technology, etc.