5 ms·

... during daytime, in summer. Or did you install a load of batteries, too?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
testing22321 2y ago
We use the grid like a battery, getting a one for one credit for everything we put in. So during summer/daytime we put in enough to then use up our credit in winter/nighttime. The power we put in even covers the monthly connection fee. I’m just about to hit 12 months with mine, 8 Mwh generated, never paid a bill. In our area the cost of electricity is already Confirmed to increase 5% a year forever, so this will only get better for us.
- belorn 2y ago
  Subsidies like one for one credit are generally going away since those are prohibitively expensive and not sustainable when the ratio of renewables start to climb. It can be useful to jump start adoption, but having the government pay the true cost of the grid only moves the energy bill to the tax bill.
  - testing22321 2y ago
    When that happens, I’ll get batteries.
    - tasuki 2y ago
      You'll need a lot of batteries. It might or might not be economical, but definitely not ecological. So... depends on your values and goals.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        Compared to what? Yes, batteries have ecological costs, but compared to fossil fuels it's minor. Home storage batteries will likely be LFP which are all abundant and recyclable.
        berdario 2y ago
        A Tesla Powerwall3 (which apparently uses LFP) has a capacity of 13.5kWh A household uses up at least around 2MWh per year, most of which during the winter, if you don't use air conditioning in the summer and don't have an electric car to charge. That means you'd need around 150 (!) Powerwall 3 units. At a price of around 10k GBP each, you'd have to shell out more than 1 million pounds just for the batteries. Not to mention the space that they'd have to take, and the increased risk in having something failing. In the USA, homes are even less efficient (and depending on locale, people run AC all year round, and drive tens of thousands of kilometers on cars which also need to be powered). 2 years ago MKBHD published a video about his experience with the Tesla roof: https://youtu.be/UJeSWbR6W04 https://youtu.be/UJeSWbR6W04 In it, he revealed that his yearly power consumption is 55MWh. His battery was able to tide him over the next cloudy day, and during the winter the solar panel wouldn't ever fully recharge again. Expecting every household to be energy independent year-round via solar is patently absurd. Renewable energy tided over with massive batteries upstream? Maybe that could work, I haven't run the numbers... But you cannot hope to push that responsibility downstream to every household. Reliable baseline is still going to be necessary for the foreseeable future.
        hiatus 2y ago
        Why would a household need enough batteries to store a year's worth of energy?
        berdario 2y ago
        The grandparent comment is arguing about the budget over a whole year https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43751178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43751178 > We use the grid like a battery, getting a one for one credit for everything we put in. So during summer/daytime we put in enough to then use up our credit in winter/nighttime. > The power we put in even covers the monthly connection fee. > I’m just about to hit 12 months with mine, 8 Mwh generated, never paid a bill. And later the same commenter argues > When that happens, I’ll get batteries.
- tasuki 2y ago
  This is unsustainable: you deliver power when its real market value is close to zero, and you want to take power out of the grid when its real market value is large.
  - morcus 2y ago
    I don't follow - where I am, peak demand seems to be in the summer during the day when everyone has air conditioning on.
    - LunaSea 2y ago
      Sure, but everyone else with solar panels will produce more than they consume at the same time as you.
    - tasuki 2y ago
      Good. Then you can live off grid actually! "Using the grid as a battery" is the unsustainable part.
      - morcus 2y ago
        That is not at all what I said. Thanks for the snark, though!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

We use the grid like a battery, getting a one for one credit for everything we put in. So during summer/daytime we put in enough to then use up our credit in winter/nighttime. The power we put in even covers the monthly connection fee. I’m just about to hit 12 months with mine, 8 Mwh generated, never paid a bill. In our area the cost of electricity is already Confirmed to increase 5% a year forever, so this will only get better for us.

belorn 2y ago
Subsidies like one for one credit are generally going away since those are prohibitively expensive and not sustainable when the ratio of renewables start to climb. It can be useful to jump start adoption, but having the government pay the true cost of the grid only moves the energy bill to the tax bill.
- testing22321 2y ago
  When that happens, I’ll get batteries.
  - tasuki 2y ago
    You'll need a lot of batteries. It might or might not be economical, but definitely not ecological. So... depends on your values and goals.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Compared to what? Yes, batteries have ecological costs, but compared to fossil fuels it's minor. Home storage batteries will likely be LFP which are all abundant and recyclable.
      - berdario 2y ago
        A Tesla Powerwall3 (which apparently uses LFP) has a capacity of 13.5kWh A household uses up at least around 2MWh per year, most of which during the winter, if you don't use air conditioning in the summer and don't have an electric car to charge. That means you'd need around 150 (!) Powerwall 3 units. At a price of around 10k GBP each, you'd have to shell out more than 1 million pounds just for the batteries. Not to mention the space that they'd have to take, and the increased risk in having something failing. In the USA, homes are even less efficient (and depending on locale, people run AC all year round, and drive tens of thousands of kilometers on cars which also need to be powered). 2 years ago MKBHD published a video about his experience with the Tesla roof: https://youtu.be/UJeSWbR6W04 https://youtu.be/UJeSWbR6W04 In it, he revealed that his yearly power consumption is 55MWh. His battery was able to tide him over the next cloudy day, and during the winter the solar panel wouldn't ever fully recharge again. Expecting every household to be energy independent year-round via solar is patently absurd. Renewable energy tided over with massive batteries upstream? Maybe that could work, I haven't run the numbers... But you cannot hope to push that responsibility downstream to every household. Reliable baseline is still going to be necessary for the foreseeable future.
        hiatus 2y ago
        Why would a household need enough batteries to store a year's worth of energy?
        berdario 2y ago
        The grandparent comment is arguing about the budget over a whole year https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43751178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43751178 > We use the grid like a battery, getting a one for one credit for everything we put in. So during summer/daytime we put in enough to then use up our credit in winter/nighttime. > The power we put in even covers the monthly connection fee. > I’m just about to hit 12 months with mine, 8 Mwh generated, never paid a bill. And later the same commenter argues > When that happens, I’ll get batteries.
tasuki 2y ago
This is unsustainable: you deliver power when its real market value is close to zero, and you want to take power out of the grid when its real market value is large.
- morcus 2y ago
  I don't follow - where I am, peak demand seems to be in the summer during the day when everyone has air conditioning on.
  - LunaSea 2y ago
    Sure, but everyone else with solar panels will produce more than they consume at the same time as you.
  - tasuki 2y ago
    Good. Then you can live off grid actually! "Using the grid as a battery" is the unsustainable part.
    - morcus 2y ago
      That is not at all what I said. Thanks for the snark, though!