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"Social contract" is a made up term used to legitimatize government intervention, i.e. statist by nature, and built upon violence. It is a myth used to justify

"Social contract" is a made up term used to legitimatize government intervention, i.e. statist by nature, and built upon violence. It is a myth used to justify state coercion and centralized authority. > A society is certainly conceivable in which there was no governmental intervention in family life or education and in which the sole function of law enforcement was the upholding of universal rights. I would also refer you to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473. https://store.mises.org/Myth-of-the-Social-Contract-Refuting-Common-Arguments-for-Government-Authority-P11268.aspx https://store.mises.org/Myth-of-the-Social-Contract-Refuting... and https://cdn.mises.org/1_3_3_0.pdf https://cdn.mises.org/1_3_3_0.pdf and whatnot.

nielsbot 2y ago
common decency? mutual respect? live and let live? the government has a role in doing the most good for the most people. for example, keeping companies from dumping poison into rivers.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  I am in favor of "common decency, mutual respect, live and let live". That is not what "social contract" is about (unless you keep playing the redefinition of words game, which many people do when arguing in favor of "muh social contract"), and no, we do not need the Government for that. https://www.academia.edu/7185307/Libertarianism_and_Pollution https://www.academia.edu/7185307/Libertarianism_and_Pollutio... https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-government-pollution-control-fails https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-government-pollution-contro... https://mises.org/mises-daily/libertarian-manifesto-pollution https://mises.org/mises-daily/libertarian-manifesto-pollutio... Among others... Please do ask if you want to read more about it. I personally like to read a lot of things with what I disagree. Please reply to the other person's comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473), too, I wonder what you'd come up with. :)
  - nielsbot 2y ago
    > despise the self-righteousness of people who think a social contract overrides personal liberty my reply to this bit is: Take your personal liberty to Libertarian Island.
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      That is fine if you do not care about your own liberty.
      - anonymars 2y ago
        What is liberty? Is it freedom from vaccinations, or freedom from getting vaccine-preventable diseases? Is it freedom to carry a gun, or freedom from getting shot? Is it freedom to pollute, or freedom from pollution? Is it the freedom to pay as little as possible, or the freedom from others pushing their tragedy-of-the-commons cost onto me? Is it freedom to choose the ideal healthcare plan for me, or freedom from spending hours deciphering healthcare mumbo-jumbo and ending up in medical debt if you get it wrong? Liberty is subjective and opinions differ. The social contract is society's collective détente.
        johnisgood 2y ago
        Liberty is indeed subjective, but unless it is rooted in a consistent framework of consent and non-aggression, it risks becoming a mere euphemism for majority rule or state coercion. The social contract, if used to justify that coercion without consent, becomes problematic. Liberty should not mean trading one form of oppression for another under the guise of collective benefit. The social contract is a fraud: no one ever signed it, and the State enforces it at gunpoint. True contracts require explicit, informed consent - not mere residence in a geographic territory. Thus, the invocation of a "social contract" often becomes a rhetorical tool used to justify state coercion without genuine agreement. Freedom to own a weapon is not equal to freedom to commit violence. Pollution is an invasion of property rights, and should be treated as such under the law - i.e., as a tort or nuisance, actionable by the victims. In other words, pollution should be punished - not because the government says so, but because it constitutes an aggression against another's property. Liberty means non-aggression and voluntary interaction. If you want me to expand, please say so.

nielsbot 2y ago

common decency? mutual respect? live and let live? the government has a role in doing the most good for the most people. for example, keeping companies from dumping poison into rivers.

johnisgood 2y ago
I am in favor of "common decency, mutual respect, live and let live". That is not what "social contract" is about (unless you keep playing the redefinition of words game, which many people do when arguing in favor of "muh social contract"), and no, we do not need the Government for that. https://www.academia.edu/7185307/Libertarianism_and_Pollution https://www.academia.edu/7185307/Libertarianism_and_Pollutio... https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-government-pollution-control-fails https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-government-pollution-contro... https://mises.org/mises-daily/libertarian-manifesto-pollution https://mises.org/mises-daily/libertarian-manifesto-pollutio... Among others... Please do ask if you want to read more about it. I personally like to read a lot of things with what I disagree. Please reply to the other person's comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43748473), too, I wonder what you'd come up with. :)
- nielsbot 2y ago
  > despise the self-righteousness of people who think a social contract overrides personal liberty my reply to this bit is: Take your personal liberty to Libertarian Island.
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    That is fine if you do not care about your own liberty.
    - anonymars 2y ago
      What is liberty? Is it freedom from vaccinations, or freedom from getting vaccine-preventable diseases? Is it freedom to carry a gun, or freedom from getting shot? Is it freedom to pollute, or freedom from pollution? Is it the freedom to pay as little as possible, or the freedom from others pushing their tragedy-of-the-commons cost onto me? Is it freedom to choose the ideal healthcare plan for me, or freedom from spending hours deciphering healthcare mumbo-jumbo and ending up in medical debt if you get it wrong? Liberty is subjective and opinions differ. The social contract is society's collective détente.
      - johnisgood 2y ago
        Liberty is indeed subjective, but unless it is rooted in a consistent framework of consent and non-aggression, it risks becoming a mere euphemism for majority rule or state coercion. The social contract, if used to justify that coercion without consent, becomes problematic. Liberty should not mean trading one form of oppression for another under the guise of collective benefit. The social contract is a fraud: no one ever signed it, and the State enforces it at gunpoint. True contracts require explicit, informed consent - not mere residence in a geographic territory. Thus, the invocation of a "social contract" often becomes a rhetorical tool used to justify state coercion without genuine agreement. Freedom to own a weapon is not equal to freedom to commit violence. Pollution is an invasion of property rights, and should be treated as such under the law - i.e., as a tort or nuisance, actionable by the victims. In other words, pollution should be punished - not because the government says so, but because it constitutes an aggression against another's property. Liberty means non-aggression and voluntary interaction. If you want me to expand, please say so.