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Happy Easter. I am an atheist but I was raised Christian (Greek Orthodox). I read all four Gospels as a teenager in their original Koine Greek - Greek is my ma

Happy Easter. I am an atheist but I was raised Christian (Greek Orthodox). I read all four Gospels as a teenager in their original Koine Greek - Greek is my maternal language and I am lucky enough that I still understand its version spoken two thousand years ago. From my reading, and ignoring any later interpretation, what you say is partly right, but you are leaving out a very big part of what Christ taught and what he did when he was with his students. Yes, he claimed he was the son of God, yes he claimed that those who believe in him will find the kingdom of heaven, yes his followers believed he rose from the dead and ascended to the heavens (? "ανελήθφη εις τους ουρανους") afterwards. And that he will return and judge right and wrong in a second coming (that's actually from the Apocalypse). And all that- all that's cannon and nobody denies it. But it makes no sense to deny the fact that while he was here, among us, he defended widows and orphans, the poor, the weak, the downtrodden, he fed the hungry, he healed the paralytics and the blind, and the lepers, and he recruited his followers (among whom Paul, or Saul, was not) from fishers and peasants, and called on them to be "fishers of men". And there is no denying all the parables, mentioned in the article, in which the unrighteous, the rich, the powerful, the selfish and the greedy get their just desserts. There is no denying the parable of the Good Samaritan and Christ's commandment to him who has two chitons, to give one to whomever hasn't. There is no denying that he attacked the usurers in the temple in rage, crying that they desecrated his father's house, no denying that he spoke truth to power and held the feet of the scribes and the pharissees over the fire for their corruption and greed. Christ preached love, and compassion, and philanthropy, for all his followers while they live in the world. And he didn't just preach them! Those are important, fundamental responsibilities that the faithful must observe if they are to gain entry into the kingdom of heaven, after his second coming. His kingdom is not of this world, as you remind us, but to gain entry to his kingdom one must live their life as a Christian in this world. And "it is easier for a camel to pass a needle's eye than a rich man through the gates of heaven" (my liberal translation, from memory). And there is no denying the fact that his teaching was for his followers to share. Share everything, like he shared everything with them. "This is my flesh, eat from it. This is my blood, drink from it". Λάβετε, φάγετε τοῦτο ἐστί τό σῶμα μου, τό ὑπέρ ὑμῶν κλώμενον εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν. Take, eat, this is my body, parceled for you to relieve your sins. The most sacred rite of Christianity, even the most modernised, Westernised Christianity, far removed from its Eastern roots, is the rite of communion. The author of the piece did not hallucinate. Christianity is a form of sacred communism. Maybe the message was twisted and its meaning lost as it travelled in time and space away from its origins, but the message was loud and clear when Christ was here: share everything with your brothers and sisters and take care of each other in this world otherwise you will not be with Christ in the other.

defrost 2y ago
Happy Easter from Northern Australia. In a novel tangential appreciation of Ο Τελευταίος Πειρασμός, O Teleftéos Pirasmós I hope you enjoy a local school production of a Greek classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw
- YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
  Thanks. That was uplifting :D
n4r9 2y ago
> Yes, he claimed he was the son of God ... all that's cannon and nobody denies it. That Jesus claimed to be the son of God is actually contested among bible scholars. See e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma#Criticism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma#Criticism
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
  Not sure about that. Plenty of Jesus calling himself, and others calling him, the son of god, in the Gospels. This is from John 14: 8 Λέγει αὐτῷ Φίλιππος· Κύριε, δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα, καὶ ἀρκεῖ ἡμῖν. 9 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· [l]Τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε; ὁ ἑωρακὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακεν τὸν πατέρα· [m]πῶς σὺ λέγεις· Δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα; 10 οὐ πιστεύεις ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί ἐστιν; τὰ ῥήματα ἃ ἐγὼ [n]λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπ’ ἐμαυτοῦ οὐ λαλῶ, ὁ δὲ [o]πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοὶ [p]μένων ποιεῖ τὰ ἔργα [q]αὐτοῦ. 11 πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί· εἰ δὲ μή, διὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτὰ [r]πιστεύετε. 12 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ τὰ ἔργα ἃ ἐγὼ ποιῶ κἀκεῖνος ποιήσει, καὶ μείζονα τούτων ποιήσει, ὅτι ἐγὼ πρὸς τὸν [s]πατέρα πορεύομαι· 13 καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ· 14 ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ [t]με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου [u]ἐγὼ ποιήσω. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%CE%9A%CE%91%CE%A4%CE%91%20%CE%99%CE%A9%CE%91%CE%9D%CE%9D%CE%97%CE%9D%2014&version=SBLGNT https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%CE%9A%CE%91%CE... This takes place during the last supper, after Judas has left. Philip asks whether Jesus can't just show them "the father" and Jesus says that anyone who has seen him, has seen the father, because the father is in him and he is in the father, and that he does not speak by himself but the father speaks in him and acts his (the father's) acts. Then he tells his disciples to believe that he is in the father and the father is in him (again) and that anyone who believes in Jesus will be able to do what Jesus does and more besides (I think he means miracles) because Jesus is going towards the father. Finally: καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ· 14 ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ [t]με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου [u]ἐγὼ ποιήσω. My quick translation: "and what you ask for in my name, that I will make true, so that the father is glorified through the son. If you ask for something in my name I will make it true" So he's clearly saying he's the son of the father; and it's difficult to see what other father he means but god. I don't know why bible scolars have to go and split hairs here, it's very obvious what the Evangelist is saying Jesus is saying, you have to squint very hard to see something else. There's plenty more of that from the same chapter and in other places in John and the others. And then you can read the passages on the cross where people come and make fun of him for having said he's the son of god. People are assholes, trolling a man dying on a cross, but either there was a nasty rumour going around or Jesus really did call himself the son of god and that got up peoples' noses. On the other hand there's the bit about calling himself the King of the Judeans, which he seems to have vehemently denied in front of Pilate, so who knows? To his students anyway he seems to have clearly said he's the son of the father and the students certainly believed it.

defrost 2y ago

Happy Easter from Northern Australia. In a novel tangential appreciation of Ο Τελευταίος Πειρασμός, O Teleftéos Pirasmós I hope you enjoy a local school production of a Greek classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MucVWo-Pw

YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
Thanks. That was uplifting :D

n4r9 2y ago

> Yes, he claimed he was the son of God ... all that's cannon and nobody denies it. That Jesus claimed to be the son of God is actually contested among bible scholars. See e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma#Criticism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%27s_trilemma#Criticism

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
Not sure about that. Plenty of Jesus calling himself, and others calling him, the son of god, in the Gospels. This is from John 14: 8 Λέγει αὐτῷ Φίλιππος· Κύριε, δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα, καὶ ἀρκεῖ ἡμῖν. 9 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· [l]Τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε; ὁ ἑωρακὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακεν τὸν πατέρα· [m]πῶς σὺ λέγεις· Δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα; 10 οὐ πιστεύεις ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί ἐστιν; τὰ ῥήματα ἃ ἐγὼ [n]λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπ’ ἐμαυτοῦ οὐ λαλῶ, ὁ δὲ [o]πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοὶ [p]μένων ποιεῖ τὰ ἔργα [q]αὐτοῦ. 11 πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί· εἰ δὲ μή, διὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτὰ [r]πιστεύετε. 12 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ τὰ ἔργα ἃ ἐγὼ ποιῶ κἀκεῖνος ποιήσει, καὶ μείζονα τούτων ποιήσει, ὅτι ἐγὼ πρὸς τὸν [s]πατέρα πορεύομαι· 13 καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ· 14 ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ [t]με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου [u]ἐγὼ ποιήσω. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%CE%9A%CE%91%CE%A4%CE%91%20%CE%99%CE%A9%CE%91%CE%9D%CE%9D%CE%97%CE%9D%2014&version=SBLGNT https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%CE%9A%CE%91%CE... This takes place during the last supper, after Judas has left. Philip asks whether Jesus can't just show them "the father" and Jesus says that anyone who has seen him, has seen the father, because the father is in him and he is in the father, and that he does not speak by himself but the father speaks in him and acts his (the father's) acts. Then he tells his disciples to believe that he is in the father and the father is in him (again) and that anyone who believes in Jesus will be able to do what Jesus does and more besides (I think he means miracles) because Jesus is going towards the father. Finally: καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ· 14 ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ [t]με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου [u]ἐγὼ ποιήσω. My quick translation: "and what you ask for in my name, that I will make true, so that the father is glorified through the son. If you ask for something in my name I will make it true" So he's clearly saying he's the son of the father; and it's difficult to see what other father he means but god. I don't know why bible scolars have to go and split hairs here, it's very obvious what the Evangelist is saying Jesus is saying, you have to squint very hard to see something else. There's plenty more of that from the same chapter and in other places in John and the others. And then you can read the passages on the cross where people come and make fun of him for having said he's the son of god. People are assholes, trolling a man dying on a cross, but either there was a nasty rumour going around or Jesus really did call himself the son of god and that got up peoples' noses. On the other hand there's the bit about calling himself the King of the Judeans, which he seems to have vehemently denied in front of Pilate, so who knows? To his students anyway he seems to have clearly said he's the son of the father and the students certainly believed it.