4 ms·

Also unfortunate that SK seems to have gone overnight from a generational family unit to the western style nuclear family. All of those elderly living in povert

Also unfortunate that SK seems to have gone overnight from a generational family unit to the western style nuclear family. All of those elderly living in poverty despite modern SK built on their backs.. I am sure they would love to contribute to raising the next generation of children. There are so many cultural factors in SK that might take generations to reverse without being "forced" by the government (which is also wary to enforce). Of course, by then its too late per the video.

dogma1138 1y ago
The nuclear family worked when you could easily have a single household provider, it doesn’t work anymore and the recent trend of having multi generational households seems to be completely driven by people not being able to afford to move out. I always pondered if child baring should be done as a generational leap. As in how would society look like if people have kids in their 20’s with the grandparents who are in their 40’s being the primary caretakers and rinse and repeat. Seems that this combines the best outcomes in terms of biology and still being able pursue educational and career goals. But this is a very major shift from where we are today. It’s going to be far more likely that more and more people will start having children in their late 30’s and even 40’s and 50’s. If we are going that way then freezing sprem and eggs at a young age should be much cheaper than it is now and people should really start considering it.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Presume that a majority of women of reproductive age per generation al cohort do not want children, and intend to exit those fertility years childfree. What then? I see no crisis, only total fertility rates reaching a neutral rate based on women empowered to make the best choice for themselves. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... https://www.dw.com/en/why-south-korean-women-arent-having-babies/a-68419317 https://www.dw.com/en/why-south-korean-women-arent-having-ba... https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240918-chile-birth-rate-plummets-as-women-say-no-to-motherhood https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240918-chile-birth-r...
  - dogma1138 1y ago
    Society will have to correct itself somehow, either through social change or technological advancement that or we will all go extinct… I actually wonder why this isn’t a bigger talking point, we are probably not at the point of no return yet but many countries are getting there and people will be caught by surprise as whilst the effect is delayed human life expectancy isn’t that long and it doesn’t take more than a couple of generations like ours until we are going to be facing a major crisis. I really don’t know where we went wrong, and I’m not sure it’s purely financial either (tho it is for many), at least from my anecdotal experience.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      The population ballooned because women were not educated and empowered. Now that they are, and have robust access to family planning, TFR is coming down rapidly and population will eventually follow. Where we went wrong? Women not being empowered in the first place. This is the fix, not a problem. This is a success story. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225389
      - dogma1138 1y ago
        I don’t know what’s right or wrong but can we agree that TFR below replacement isn’t sustainable in the long term? Even if you don’t see shrinking population as a massive problem which it will be, if the TFR remains below ~2.1 humanity won’t be here for much longer.
        toomuchtodo 1y ago
        I disagree. The world has ~8.2B people, and has blown past 6 out of 9 planetary boundaries while headed to 9-10B people by 2100 (due to population momentum). Humanity will successfully continue on with an order of magnitude reduction in that number 150-200 years from now, based on a median global TFR of ~0.5-1. TFR isn’t going to 0. We can plan accordingly, if we choose to. We are currently on the unsustainable path; a lower TFR puts us closer to sustainability. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adh2458 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adh2458 https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/population https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/population

dogma1138 1y ago

The nuclear family worked when you could easily have a single household provider, it doesn’t work anymore and the recent trend of having multi generational households seems to be completely driven by people not being able to afford to move out. I always pondered if child baring should be done as a generational leap. As in how would society look like if people have kids in their 20’s with the grandparents who are in their 40’s being the primary caretakers and rinse and repeat. Seems that this combines the best outcomes in terms of biology and still being able pursue educational and career goals. But this is a very major shift from where we are today. It’s going to be far more likely that more and more people will start having children in their late 30’s and even 40’s and 50’s. If we are going that way then freezing sprem and eggs at a young age should be much cheaper than it is now and people should really start considering it.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Presume that a majority of women of reproductive age per generation al cohort do not want children, and intend to exit those fertility years childfree. What then? I see no crisis, only total fertility rates reaching a neutral rate based on women empowered to make the best choice for themselves. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... https://www.dw.com/en/why-south-korean-women-arent-having-babies/a-68419317 https://www.dw.com/en/why-south-korean-women-arent-having-ba... https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240918-chile-birth-rate-plummets-as-women-say-no-to-motherhood https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240918-chile-birth-r...
- dogma1138 1y ago
  Society will have to correct itself somehow, either through social change or technological advancement that or we will all go extinct… I actually wonder why this isn’t a bigger talking point, we are probably not at the point of no return yet but many countries are getting there and people will be caught by surprise as whilst the effect is delayed human life expectancy isn’t that long and it doesn’t take more than a couple of generations like ours until we are going to be facing a major crisis. I really don’t know where we went wrong, and I’m not sure it’s purely financial either (tho it is for many), at least from my anecdotal experience.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    The population ballooned because women were not educated and empowered. Now that they are, and have robust access to family planning, TFR is coming down rapidly and population will eventually follow. Where we went wrong? Women not being empowered in the first place. This is the fix, not a problem. This is a success story. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225389
    - dogma1138 1y ago
      I don’t know what’s right or wrong but can we agree that TFR below replacement isn’t sustainable in the long term? Even if you don’t see shrinking population as a massive problem which it will be, if the TFR remains below ~2.1 humanity won’t be here for much longer.
      - toomuchtodo 1y ago
        I disagree. The world has ~8.2B people, and has blown past 6 out of 9 planetary boundaries while headed to 9-10B people by 2100 (due to population momentum). Humanity will successfully continue on with an order of magnitude reduction in that number 150-200 years from now, based on a median global TFR of ~0.5-1. TFR isn’t going to 0. We can plan accordingly, if we choose to. We are currently on the unsustainable path; a lower TFR puts us closer to sustainability. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adh2458 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adh2458 https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/population https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/population