5 ms·

Bingo. Racial profiling. Are we done with the great deportation experiment? Giving amnesty like Reagan or Bush Jr's visa proposal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wik

by ivape 2y ago

Bingo. Racial profiling. Are we done with the great deportation experiment? Giving amnesty like Reagan or Bush Jr's visa proposal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program) would make us safer just due to IDing everyone, and richer due to taxing more people. That's the one great thing about America, we'll try every bad thing at least once (internment camps, segregation, false wars), and then we realize we're actually not down with it. We can tighten down the immigration entrance policy after we humanely deal with what has already happened.

alephnerd 2y ago
We had a shot at a general amnesty or reformed guest worker program in the mid 2000s to early 2010s, but unions like the UFCW (the primary decider of elections in NV) and others in the AFL-CIO opposed it. That said, the AFL-CIO of today is much more white collar and diverse compared to that of 20 years ago, so it wouldn't be as brutal for their locals. I've said this a thousand times: all unions aren't equal, and we as Dems need to drop the Midwest (aside from MN and IL, where unions are AFL-CIO aligned, and demographics are Dem aligned) and the UAW+ILU. The GOP has a platform that is closer aligned to their locals, and national has flipped as a result. Give up the rust belt, and concentrate on shoring up UFCW heavy states like NV, AZ, GA, and NC. Pandering to the UAW and ILU cause the Biden admin to snub Musk, which enraged an already unstable egotistical person to go into the deep end [0], and the UAW and ILU anyhow decided to endorse the Trump admin's current moves [1]. So much for making an enemy. Stop pandering to the Hank Hills - they will vote red. Of course, this won't change - such a change would inevitably break a lot of factions internally in the Dems, and would be fought tooth and nail by the Shapiros and Whitmers. [0] - https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/how-elon-musk-broke-with-biden-and-the-democrats-4960b7d8 https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/how-elon-musk-broke-w... [1] - https://www.axios.com/2025/03/04/uaw-trump-tariffs-united-auto-workers https://www.axios.com/2025/03/04/uaw-trump-tariffs-united-au...
s1artibartfast 2y ago
The problem with these programs is that the government granted the amnesty, but then failed to follow through on the enforcement in the aftermath. This is seared into the conservative memory, so they are extremely resistant to the idea, IMO rightly so.
- ivape 2y ago
  I know. The left has not seriously put thought into how to actually tighten and have a sane entrance/enforcement policy either. This is a bipartisan issue that requires a) humanity b) reality c) practicality. We don't have the political leadership to get us there yet, but it is at least grass roots to begin having the two reasonable sides even discussing it in far corners of the internet (maybe it'll bubble up). Obstinance on both sides certainly is getting us nowhere, because kicking out whoever Trump is going to kick out is going to be undone by the next Democrat, so back to square one, right? I never thought I'd say Bush Jr had one of the best policies on this ever, and it was the Democrats that stopped it. So, I know the left isn't nearly correct on it. That I don't even think a whole wall is stupid if we humanely incorporate whoever already built a life here.

by ivape 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago

We had a shot at a general amnesty or reformed guest worker program in the mid 2000s to early 2010s, but unions like the UFCW (the primary decider of elections in NV) and others in the AFL-CIO opposed it. That said, the AFL-CIO of today is much more white collar and diverse compared to that of 20 years ago, so it wouldn't be as brutal for their locals. I've said this a thousand times: all unions aren't equal, and we as Dems need to drop the Midwest (aside from MN and IL, where unions are AFL-CIO aligned, and demographics are Dem aligned) and the UAW+ILU. The GOP has a platform that is closer aligned to their locals, and national has flipped as a result. Give up the rust belt, and concentrate on shoring up UFCW heavy states like NV, AZ, GA, and NC. Pandering to the UAW and ILU cause the Biden admin to snub Musk, which enraged an already unstable egotistical person to go into the deep end [0], and the UAW and ILU anyhow decided to endorse the Trump admin's current moves [1]. So much for making an enemy. Stop pandering to the Hank Hills - they will vote red. Of course, this won't change - such a change would inevitably break a lot of factions internally in the Dems, and would be fought tooth and nail by the Shapiros and Whitmers. [0] - https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/how-elon-musk-broke-with-biden-and-the-democrats-4960b7d8 https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/how-elon-musk-broke-w... [1] - https://www.axios.com/2025/03/04/uaw-trump-tariffs-united-auto-workers https://www.axios.com/2025/03/04/uaw-trump-tariffs-united-au...

s1artibartfast 2y ago

The problem with these programs is that the government granted the amnesty, but then failed to follow through on the enforcement in the aftermath. This is seared into the conservative memory, so they are extremely resistant to the idea, IMO rightly so.

ivape 2y ago
I know. The left has not seriously put thought into how to actually tighten and have a sane entrance/enforcement policy either. This is a bipartisan issue that requires a) humanity b) reality c) practicality. We don't have the political leadership to get us there yet, but it is at least grass roots to begin having the two reasonable sides even discussing it in far corners of the internet (maybe it'll bubble up). Obstinance on both sides certainly is getting us nowhere, because kicking out whoever Trump is going to kick out is going to be undone by the next Democrat, so back to square one, right? I never thought I'd say Bush Jr had one of the best policies on this ever, and it was the Democrats that stopped it. So, I know the left isn't nearly correct on it. That I don't even think a whole wall is stupid if we humanely incorporate whoever already built a life here.