4 ms·

The big thing missing from the article is the strobes. Flash is how pros get their pictures and there is a network of massive strobes that the photographic poo

The big thing missing from the article is the strobes. Flash is how pros get their pictures and there is a network of massive strobes that the photographic pool share. Same is true for most basketball arenas in the US.

PaulHoule 2y ago
I shoot basketball college games and never use a flash. DxO noise reduction software lets me crank the ISO up to crazy levels so I can deal with the low light. My weapon of choice is Sony’s 135mm/1.8 GM which gets results from players on the close side. If you try to follow the ball you find that almost everybody is facing away from you or obstructed by someone else. I came to the conclusion that sports photography is really people photography so I started looking for good portraits (open shots on the players are rare) and that sometimes I’d get lucky and get good action. This viewpoint improved my basketball photography but improved my other photography more because people’s motion is more predictable doing almost anything else. I’m getting real work doing running events now, like https://www.yogile.com/strides-of-march-2025 https://www.yogile.com/strides-of-march-2025
- dylan604 2y ago
  > I came to the conclusion that sports photography is really people photography so I started looking for good portraits That's an interesting realization you made, but what were you doing before that? I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. This also means there's plenty of light for the photogs.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. This also means there's plenty of light for the photogs. That's not (entirely) accurate. Lighting for continuous light (e.g., TV broadcast) is quite different from still photography. NBA arenas, at least, absolutely ARE equipped with strobes in the rafters that are radio-activated from the camera. Watch as the team comes down the court, and don't watch the players but watch the court, you will see the flashes reflect on the court (and apologies if you can't unsee them after, but they're not overly noticeable). As you say, there is a good amount of light, but if you want a tighter aperture or are shooting a player at high speed, you need more than the arena is lit for. Further info: - https://petapixel.com/2017/06/03/bright-flashes-nba-games-may-never-noticed/ https://petapixel.com/2017/06/03/bright-flashes-nba-games-ma... - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nta77s/anyone_notice_a_bright_flashing_light_that_would/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nta77s/anyone_notice_a... - https://imgur.com/a/puri1RN/ https://imgur.com/a/puri1RN/
    - briandear 2y ago
      This is absolutely correct. Can confirm because I did NBA photography for many years.
  - brudgers 2y ago
    the flash comment was very uninformed https://youtu.be/1IyD1mLgyeM?si=FLVemqt1Dui4jLVU https://youtu.be/1IyD1mLgyeM?si=FLVemqt1Dui4jLVU If you are videoing for slow-mo you might have a 1/240 shutter speed. If you want to freeze motion in a closeup. You want to be about an order of magnitude faster…and about two orders of magnitude faster than 30p. In addition, video typically uses smaller sensors to improve depth of field at wide aperture — you don’t want bokka — and to keep lens size down (even though broadcast lenses are massive and six or seven figures). And of course video tolerates a lot of motion blur and noise. In other words, the fire truck doesn’t rely on garden hoses.
  - briandear 2y ago
    > I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. Absolutely incorrect. The lighting at an average NBA game would require a high speed “film” — take a light meter next time you go and you won’t be able to get a fast enough shutter speed at a low enough ISO for a glossy shot. In the olden days, we’d have to push 800 ISO Fuji color film one or two stops unless we had stadium strobes. Maybe digital post processing is the norm these days, but watch an NBA game and at key moments, you’ll see strobes firing from the rafters. TV shutter speeds are slower than those used for still photography and additionally, TV lenses are gigantic and let in far more light. The typical sports still camera lens is the 300/2.8 or the 400/2.8 and even shooting at a 2.8 aperture, you still need a lot more light than the broadcast cameras.
    - brudgers 2y ago
      In addition, ISO and shutter speed cannot light the subject 2/3 stop above ambient to create emphasis. There are approximately zero scenes that would not benefit from well executed flash…though there are many were flash is impractical… …doing the impractical is also known as magic.
- brudgers 2y ago
  The running pictures are awesome work. For a lot of families your pictures might be the only pictures they have of the runners running. My comment was about how NBA “press pool” level photographs are made (and big time college hoops). They use flash but the flashes are big, wireless and up in the rafters (i.e. indirect). Basically, the press pool has access to studio lighting and can shoot at low iso and narrow apertures…and of course they have access to great shooting positions. Luck is always a factor…the photographer in Liefer’s iconic photo is just looking at the backside of Ali’s big white trunks… https://neilleifer.com/collections/muhammad-ali?srsltid=AfmBOor7qdKNqwwDZMOreS6HwACq5J9XVPDY2S7u6mTbqXAQbnAT0l3T https://neilleifer.com/collections/muhammad-ali?srsltid=AfmB... But for what it is worth, when I was shooting a lot of high school soccer, better action shots came from “skating to where the puck is going.” And turning off spray and pray because there’s only one best moment to click the shutter and mechanical sympathy is the best way to get close. And fewer photos meant less grunt work later…modulo pleasing an editor or the mother of the bride. It was a pure hobby, not a jobby. When that phase of my life passed, I shifted toward tilt-shifts and movements and doubled down on one shot at a time.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > when I was shooting a lot of high school soccer, better action shots came from “skating to where the puck is going.” way to mix sports metaphors. /s to get better action shots, it really helps to understand the nuance of the sport itself. being able to anticipate off the ball movement while being able to anticipate a play developing will all help you improve your luck to be pointing your lens in the right place. I followed a specific NCAA football team for a season, and got to the point of anticipating plays and recognizing formations even though I'm not really a throwball fan. I'm much more of a proper football fan, and can do much better than skating to a puck metaphor as I know tactics much better and see how off the ball players are moving and why they are doing it. This definitely allowed for better action shots of players with the ball. As anything, someone with specific knowledge of their subject will improve their luck over someone just there for some shots.
    - brudgers 2y ago
      At the time I was refereeing a fair amount and so I was on the field anticipating player behavior and ball movement “in anger.” And for a bit of cash. It informed my photography.
- ISL 2y ago
  Whoa. Didn't expect to see the inside of Barton Hall this morning :).
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Follow my profiles and you will see the inside of Barton and everything else Cornell https://bsky.app/profile/up-8.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/up-8.bsky.social https://mastodon.social/@UP8 https://mastodon.social/@UP8
- Karrot_Kream 2y ago
  Denoising and fast glass definitely works well and is versatile even in situations where you don't need fast action but you just don't have good lighting available. The only problem is this adds to time spent in post. If I have access to a strobe and a venue where I can use said strobe, I'm using it.
- formerphotoj 2y ago
  As we used to say, "two faces and a ball."
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago
  Nice work. I am surprised, though, that in many pictures the foot is cut off, despite having lots of space above the runner.

PaulHoule 2y ago

I shoot basketball college games and never use a flash. DxO noise reduction software lets me crank the ISO up to crazy levels so I can deal with the low light. My weapon of choice is Sony’s 135mm/1.8 GM which gets results from players on the close side. If you try to follow the ball you find that almost everybody is facing away from you or obstructed by someone else. I came to the conclusion that sports photography is really people photography so I started looking for good portraits (open shots on the players are rare) and that sometimes I’d get lucky and get good action. This viewpoint improved my basketball photography but improved my other photography more because people’s motion is more predictable doing almost anything else. I’m getting real work doing running events now, like https://www.yogile.com/strides-of-march-2025 https://www.yogile.com/strides-of-march-2025

dylan604 2y ago
> I came to the conclusion that sports photography is really people photography so I started looking for good portraits That's an interesting realization you made, but what were you doing before that? I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. This also means there's plenty of light for the photogs.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. This also means there's plenty of light for the photogs. That's not (entirely) accurate. Lighting for continuous light (e.g., TV broadcast) is quite different from still photography. NBA arenas, at least, absolutely ARE equipped with strobes in the rafters that are radio-activated from the camera. Watch as the team comes down the court, and don't watch the players but watch the court, you will see the flashes reflect on the court (and apologies if you can't unsee them after, but they're not overly noticeable). As you say, there is a good amount of light, but if you want a tighter aperture or are shooting a player at high speed, you need more than the arena is lit for. Further info: - https://petapixel.com/2017/06/03/bright-flashes-nba-games-may-never-noticed/ https://petapixel.com/2017/06/03/bright-flashes-nba-games-ma... - https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nta77s/anyone_notice_a_bright_flashing_light_that_would/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/nta77s/anyone_notice_a... - https://imgur.com/a/puri1RN/ https://imgur.com/a/puri1RN/
  - briandear 2y ago
    This is absolutely correct. Can confirm because I did NBA photography for many years.
- brudgers 2y ago
  the flash comment was very uninformed https://youtu.be/1IyD1mLgyeM?si=FLVemqt1Dui4jLVU https://youtu.be/1IyD1mLgyeM?si=FLVemqt1Dui4jLVU If you are videoing for slow-mo you might have a 1/240 shutter speed. If you want to freeze motion in a closeup. You want to be about an order of magnitude faster…and about two orders of magnitude faster than 30p. In addition, video typically uses smaller sensors to improve depth of field at wide aperture — you don’t want bokka — and to keep lens size down (even though broadcast lenses are massive and six or seven figures). And of course video tolerates a lot of motion blur and noise. In other words, the fire truck doesn’t rely on garden hoses.
- briandear 2y ago
  > I'd also say that the flash comment was very uninformed. In any arena/stadium that the games/matches are broadcast, they will be lit properly in order for the cameras to have a proper exposure. Absolutely incorrect. The lighting at an average NBA game would require a high speed “film” — take a light meter next time you go and you won’t be able to get a fast enough shutter speed at a low enough ISO for a glossy shot. In the olden days, we’d have to push 800 ISO Fuji color film one or two stops unless we had stadium strobes. Maybe digital post processing is the norm these days, but watch an NBA game and at key moments, you’ll see strobes firing from the rafters. TV shutter speeds are slower than those used for still photography and additionally, TV lenses are gigantic and let in far more light. The typical sports still camera lens is the 300/2.8 or the 400/2.8 and even shooting at a 2.8 aperture, you still need a lot more light than the broadcast cameras.
  - brudgers 2y ago
    In addition, ISO and shutter speed cannot light the subject 2/3 stop above ambient to create emphasis. There are approximately zero scenes that would not benefit from well executed flash…though there are many were flash is impractical… …doing the impractical is also known as magic.
brudgers 2y ago
The running pictures are awesome work. For a lot of families your pictures might be the only pictures they have of the runners running. My comment was about how NBA “press pool” level photographs are made (and big time college hoops). They use flash but the flashes are big, wireless and up in the rafters (i.e. indirect). Basically, the press pool has access to studio lighting and can shoot at low iso and narrow apertures…and of course they have access to great shooting positions. Luck is always a factor…the photographer in Liefer’s iconic photo is just looking at the backside of Ali’s big white trunks… https://neilleifer.com/collections/muhammad-ali?srsltid=AfmBOor7qdKNqwwDZMOreS6HwACq5J9XVPDY2S7u6mTbqXAQbnAT0l3T https://neilleifer.com/collections/muhammad-ali?srsltid=AfmB... But for what it is worth, when I was shooting a lot of high school soccer, better action shots came from “skating to where the puck is going.” And turning off spray and pray because there’s only one best moment to click the shutter and mechanical sympathy is the best way to get close. And fewer photos meant less grunt work later…modulo pleasing an editor or the mother of the bride. It was a pure hobby, not a jobby. When that phase of my life passed, I shifted toward tilt-shifts and movements and doubled down on one shot at a time.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > when I was shooting a lot of high school soccer, better action shots came from “skating to where the puck is going.” way to mix sports metaphors. /s to get better action shots, it really helps to understand the nuance of the sport itself. being able to anticipate off the ball movement while being able to anticipate a play developing will all help you improve your luck to be pointing your lens in the right place. I followed a specific NCAA football team for a season, and got to the point of anticipating plays and recognizing formations even though I'm not really a throwball fan. I'm much more of a proper football fan, and can do much better than skating to a puck metaphor as I know tactics much better and see how off the ball players are moving and why they are doing it. This definitely allowed for better action shots of players with the ball. As anything, someone with specific knowledge of their subject will improve their luck over someone just there for some shots.
  - brudgers 2y ago
    At the time I was refereeing a fair amount and so I was on the field anticipating player behavior and ball movement “in anger.” And for a bit of cash. It informed my photography.
ISL 2y ago
Whoa. Didn't expect to see the inside of Barton Hall this morning :).
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Follow my profiles and you will see the inside of Barton and everything else Cornell https://bsky.app/profile/up-8.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/up-8.bsky.social https://mastodon.social/@UP8 https://mastodon.social/@UP8
Karrot_Kream 2y ago
Denoising and fast glass definitely works well and is versatile even in situations where you don't need fast action but you just don't have good lighting available. The only problem is this adds to time spent in post. If I have access to a strobe and a venue where I can use said strobe, I'm using it.
formerphotoj 2y ago
As we used to say, "two faces and a ball."
BrandoElFollito 2y ago
Nice work. I am surprised, though, that in many pictures the foot is cut off, despite having lots of space above the runner.