5 ms·

Coming after Diaz v Tesla [1] where Tesla was found guilty of racial harassment and discrimination in that same Fremont, California plant (as can be seen here o

by Veserv 1y ago

Coming after Diaz v Tesla [1] where Tesla was found guilty of racial harassment and discrimination in that same Fremont, California plant (as can be seen here on page 3-11 [2]) to a degree that the jury deemed it worthy of a $136.9 million award, the single largest award in a race harassment case in American history [2]. That award was later reduced for procedural reasons as it was beyond the maximum limit the law allows. And further reduced in a subsequent trial evaluating direct damages due to emotional distress and loss of work which, as a matter of law, restricted the maximum allowable punitive damages. Despite that, the jury found it necessary to award punitive damages in excess of the standard maximum of 9:1 [4] which was upheld by the courts as, in the words of the judge: "Tesla’s conduct was reprehensible and repeated"[5] and as such the award in excess of standard maximums was "appropriate in light of the endemic racism at the Tesla factory and Tesla’s repeated failure to rectify it"[6]. [1] https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748-7/context https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06... [2] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748/pdf/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748-9.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06... [3] https://www.civilrightsca.com/key-verdicts/diaz-v-tesla-race-harassment/ https://www.civilrightsca.com/key-verdicts/diaz-v-tesla-race... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Farm_Mutual_Automobile_Insurance_Co._v._Campbell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Farm_Mutual_Automobile_I... [5] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748/pdf/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748-12.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06... Page 29 [6] https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748/pdf/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06748-12.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-cand-3_17-cv-06... Page 1 End of Paragraph 1.

devwastaken 1y ago
fake damage rewards are designed to benefit corps so they can cause public outrage in their favor while in reality paying a small fraction due to payout limitations.
- milesrout 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > Damages are compensatory. No,compensatory damages are compensatory. Statutory and exemplary/punitive damages are not compensatory > Allowing a jury to pluck 9-digit numbers from thin air to be reduced later is stupid. tory. Juries aren't allowed to pick numbers out of the air; on compensatory damages, as the finder of fact, the jury performs the same function as a criminal jury, it determines what facts were proven to the required standard, including the amount of harm proven.
    - rainsford 1y ago
      I was on a civil jury a while ago and it was pretty eye opening how the process actually works. I'd say about half of the court time was dedicated to arguments about proving specific damages and ultimately the result was that the jury found in favor of the plaintiff but awarded a much lower damage amount than they were asking for specifically because they failed to prove that amount of harm. The idea of juries plucking random numbers of out thin air doesn't even remotely match my experience, or reality based on conversations I've had with lawyers I know.
  - rainsford 1y ago
    > Allowing a jury to pluck 9-digit numbers from thin air to be reduced later is stupid. That's not how civil jury trials work. Not only are juries specifically instructed that they can't just make up damages numbers, but a significant amount of the courtroom time will be dedicated to both sides presenting arguments for specific damage amounts with detailed justifications, expert witnesses, etc. I'm not saying trials never result in wonky damages amounts, but the idea that juries generally just randomly pick the biggest number they can think of is largely a media created fiction.
milesrout 1y ago
[flagged]
- whateveracct 1y ago
  do you dispute these things happened?
- rs186 1y ago
  So let's say it's an organized campaign. So what? Are they stating the facts? If so, does it matter?
- a_puppy 1y ago
  A decade ago, citing sources in an online debate was considered normal. I think we should bring that back. If you cite sources, it's harder to lie, and you have to do at least a little bit of research before posting. It leads to much better discourse, IMO.

by Veserv 1y ago

devwastaken 1y ago

fake damage rewards are designed to benefit corps so they can cause public outrage in their favor while in reality paying a small fraction due to payout limitations.

milesrout 1y ago
[flagged]
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > Damages are compensatory. No,compensatory damages are compensatory. Statutory and exemplary/punitive damages are not compensatory > Allowing a jury to pluck 9-digit numbers from thin air to be reduced later is stupid. tory. Juries aren't allowed to pick numbers out of the air; on compensatory damages, as the finder of fact, the jury performs the same function as a criminal jury, it determines what facts were proven to the required standard, including the amount of harm proven.
  - rainsford 1y ago
    I was on a civil jury a while ago and it was pretty eye opening how the process actually works. I'd say about half of the court time was dedicated to arguments about proving specific damages and ultimately the result was that the jury found in favor of the plaintiff but awarded a much lower damage amount than they were asking for specifically because they failed to prove that amount of harm. The idea of juries plucking random numbers of out thin air doesn't even remotely match my experience, or reality based on conversations I've had with lawyers I know.
- rainsford 1y ago
  > Allowing a jury to pluck 9-digit numbers from thin air to be reduced later is stupid. That's not how civil jury trials work. Not only are juries specifically instructed that they can't just make up damages numbers, but a significant amount of the courtroom time will be dedicated to both sides presenting arguments for specific damage amounts with detailed justifications, expert witnesses, etc. I'm not saying trials never result in wonky damages amounts, but the idea that juries generally just randomly pick the biggest number they can think of is largely a media created fiction.

milesrout 1y ago

[flagged]

whateveracct 1y ago
do you dispute these things happened?
rs186 1y ago
So let's say it's an organized campaign. So what? Are they stating the facts? If so, does it matter?
a_puppy 1y ago
A decade ago, citing sources in an online debate was considered normal. I think we should bring that back. If you cite sources, it's harder to lie, and you have to do at least a little bit of research before posting. It leads to much better discourse, IMO.