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Firstly, I absolutely agree with you on books > internet media. > A curious mind will develop critical thinking skills. This is the linchpin of the debate. W

by ethbr1 2y ago

Firstly, I absolutely agree with you on books > internet media. > A curious mind will develop critical thinking skills. This is the linchpin of the debate. What if the first book you read at a critical age insists that it alone is true, and that other books should be distrusted at risk of harms to yourself? Say, the Christian Bible. It is absolutely possible -- unlikely, given the subjects of most books, but possible -- to have harmful information encoded in a book. The question is then how to blunt those negative outcomes, at scale, democratically, without opening the door to arbitrary political interference of the day.

PaulRobinson 2y ago
As somebody brought up in the Catholic faith, I can assure you that all humans are exposed to varied ideas and alternative books that they can make their own mind up. Diversity of opinion for me increased after I left school, and that's when I became more critical of the beliefs I held as a child. It's for that reason I think libraries are better than social media - social media is not just the equivalent of a religious tract that insists it is true, it actively prevents you from finding and considering contrary views all by yourself.
- dTal 2y ago
  >they can make their own mind up On what basis can they do this? No human is born with a magical algorithm in their brain that can sort good ideas from bad. The only scalpels we have are those which we collect. Critical thinking must be bootstrapped. Mind viruses must be inoculated against. Just because you (eventually!) threw off your case of memetic measles, doesn't mean that everyone does. Some people die of it.
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 2y ago
> that other books should be distrusted at risk of harms to yourself? Say, the Christian Bible A bit off topic, but I find it interesting that the Christian Bible is always the example of a "bad" book, when there are other, very popular, religions whose books literally tell them that non-adherents are worthy only of a grisly death.
- erxam 2y ago
  Maybe because it's the main book chosen by the cults that rule over the Americas today? And most commenters here are American. If it were a Venn Diagram, the circle of the people subject to the other 'big' religious books would have very little intersection with the set of the people who frequent this forum. It follows then that they would get far less criticism, since there's so much less exposure.
tisdadd 2y ago
As it is Resurrection Sunday, and see this getting ready for church, wanted to say that I have a large library that is made up of mostly fiction and then Bible resources. I can say with confidence that, if you read the Bible it does not say that you can read only it. However, I will say that if those that proclaim Christ act more like Him, I think that most would be more happy to read it with the thought that it is true. Also, if it is not and people follow what were put as the greatest commandments, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself then that would still only benefit society. Often people pick and choose bits and get some crazy thoughts because without the rest of the text in context you are just left with a con. Anyway,my heart was saddened to see people listing the greatest book in history as bad.
- yusina 2y ago
  > Anyway,my heart was saddened to see people listing the greatest book in history as bad. Because it's a work of fiction and since it's missionary, it is exactly the kind of work which aims to suppress critical thinking in order to lock the reader into a particular world view for the rest of their lives.
  - parineum 2y ago
    Fictional books can be good and there are plenty of valuable lessons in the Bible. I know plenty of Christians who are great people capable of critical thinking. > aims to suppress critical thinking in order to lock the reader into a particular world view for the rest of their lives. There are a myriad of books that present their POV as absolute truth. Some of them aren't even in the dreaded fiction section! Most books don't end every statement with, "I could be wrong though, do your own research."
  - tisdadd 2y ago
    Knowing we will not agree, I will simply leave it that it was the first book on Gutenberg printing press, and that I think we can both agree made books much more widely available. Additionally, I think that must people on this site have more than likely had some logic and critical thinking studies, myself included, and that it is ok to disagree on some things. However, on the logic side, if Heaven is real and there is but one way to get there and not many, only those on that way will get there. If it is real and there are many ways, it doesn't matter what one you pick. If it is not real, then it also doesn't matter. I know if someone wants to hear logical discussions there are apologetics and debaters out there that are good to listen to. With the main thread here, I appreciate libraries and librarians greatly, especially in an age where so much is kept in a mutable form vs the hard copy. I would say that I hope most people have a worldview that they can express, and that it should morph with a deeper understanding of the world as you mature.
mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
FWIW the Bible contradicts itself enough that a curious/critical mind will have to grapple with what truth is. I know I did as a kid.

by ethbr1 2y ago

PaulRobinson 2y ago

As somebody brought up in the Catholic faith, I can assure you that all humans are exposed to varied ideas and alternative books that they can make their own mind up. Diversity of opinion for me increased after I left school, and that's when I became more critical of the beliefs I held as a child. It's for that reason I think libraries are better than social media - social media is not just the equivalent of a religious tract that insists it is true, it actively prevents you from finding and considering contrary views all by yourself.

dTal 2y ago
>they can make their own mind up On what basis can they do this? No human is born with a magical algorithm in their brain that can sort good ideas from bad. The only scalpels we have are those which we collect. Critical thinking must be bootstrapped. Mind viruses must be inoculated against. Just because you (eventually!) threw off your case of memetic measles, doesn't mean that everyone does. Some people die of it.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 2y ago

> that other books should be distrusted at risk of harms to yourself? Say, the Christian Bible A bit off topic, but I find it interesting that the Christian Bible is always the example of a "bad" book, when there are other, very popular, religions whose books literally tell them that non-adherents are worthy only of a grisly death.

erxam 2y ago
Maybe because it's the main book chosen by the cults that rule over the Americas today? And most commenters here are American. If it were a Venn Diagram, the circle of the people subject to the other 'big' religious books would have very little intersection with the set of the people who frequent this forum. It follows then that they would get far less criticism, since there's so much less exposure.

tisdadd 2y ago

As it is Resurrection Sunday, and see this getting ready for church, wanted to say that I have a large library that is made up of mostly fiction and then Bible resources. I can say with confidence that, if you read the Bible it does not say that you can read only it. However, I will say that if those that proclaim Christ act more like Him, I think that most would be more happy to read it with the thought that it is true. Also, if it is not and people follow what were put as the greatest commandments, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and Love your neighbor as yourself then that would still only benefit society. Often people pick and choose bits and get some crazy thoughts because without the rest of the text in context you are just left with a con. Anyway,my heart was saddened to see people listing the greatest book in history as bad.

yusina 2y ago
> Anyway,my heart was saddened to see people listing the greatest book in history as bad. Because it's a work of fiction and since it's missionary, it is exactly the kind of work which aims to suppress critical thinking in order to lock the reader into a particular world view for the rest of their lives.
- parineum 2y ago
  Fictional books can be good and there are plenty of valuable lessons in the Bible. I know plenty of Christians who are great people capable of critical thinking. > aims to suppress critical thinking in order to lock the reader into a particular world view for the rest of their lives. There are a myriad of books that present their POV as absolute truth. Some of them aren't even in the dreaded fiction section! Most books don't end every statement with, "I could be wrong though, do your own research."
- tisdadd 2y ago
  Knowing we will not agree, I will simply leave it that it was the first book on Gutenberg printing press, and that I think we can both agree made books much more widely available. Additionally, I think that must people on this site have more than likely had some logic and critical thinking studies, myself included, and that it is ok to disagree on some things. However, on the logic side, if Heaven is real and there is but one way to get there and not many, only those on that way will get there. If it is real and there are many ways, it doesn't matter what one you pick. If it is not real, then it also doesn't matter. I know if someone wants to hear logical discussions there are apologetics and debaters out there that are good to listen to. With the main thread here, I appreciate libraries and librarians greatly, especially in an age where so much is kept in a mutable form vs the hard copy. I would say that I hope most people have a worldview that they can express, and that it should morph with a deeper understanding of the world as you mature.

mrgoldenbrown 2y ago

FWIW the Bible contradicts itself enough that a curious/critical mind will have to grapple with what truth is. I know I did as a kid.