4 ms·

Unblinded, tiny sample size (n=10), and a ridiculous attempt to trademark a pure 100Hz tone. I'm gonna wait for a much better study reproducing this before I p

by bhaney 1y ago

Unblinded, tiny sample size (n=10), and a ridiculous attempt to trademark a pure 100Hz tone. I'm gonna wait for a much better study reproducing this before I put any stock in it, personally.

janalsncm 1y ago
We don’t need a peer reviewed study to test it out. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdi0jQtMqV8&pp https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdi0jQtMqV8&pp
- thesparks 1y ago
  Am I the only one who started to feel a bit nauseous listening to this? I'm serious.
  - pomian 1y ago
    That may be a good thing. Most of the seasickness drugs make you queasy, if you don't go out on a rolling sea after taking them.
    - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
      Uh...no... It would be completely bonkers for an antiemetic to commonly induce an emetic urge in any but rare exceptional cases. Most seasickness drugs are just first-generation antihistamines sometimes combined with a caffeine analogue to counteract the sleepiness. Dramamine/Gravol (dimenhydrinate) is just benadryl (diphenhydramine) plus the caffeine analogue theophylline. Bonine/DramamineII (meclizine) is also a first-generation antihistamine. Promethazine is also a first-generation antihistamine. Non-antihistamine antiemetics like ondansetron or scopolamine transdermal patches require a prescription from a doctor and therefore aren't commonly used for motion sickness except for occupational seafarers. And it would still be absolutely stupid if the drugs given to prevent nausea commonly caused nausea.
      - rzzzt 1y ago
        Why would it be stupid? You are concentrating on the vomiting part but aren't other sensations related to motion sickness like shaky balance that drugs could help out with?
        OJFord 1y ago
        Not to mention the possibility of triggering a response that the trigger would help combat if you already exhibited the response. Or it simply being an uncommon side effect that it's made worse. Headaches and nausea are listed in possible side effects for just about everything, because if anyone reports it they have to list it since the possibility of causality hasn't been ruled out.
        dcow 1y ago
        Does that mean when death is listed that somebody died during the trial?
        BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
        > You are concentrating on the vomiting part The nausea part. The person I'm replying to specifically said "queasy".
      - DrBenCarson 1y ago
        I think it’s not uncommon for a drug treating some condition with some symptom to have a potential side effect that worsens that symptom. When you start playing with some set of receptors, it’s possible something goes too far or, for whatever reason, not far enough and now we’re worse off See: antidepressants can increase suicidal ideation, cannabis (used for nausea) can cause nausea at higher doses, etc.
        xico 1y ago
        As an occasional user, can confirm that motion sickness pills (e.g. Cinnarizine, one of the most used in the British Navy) make dizzy, some more than other, and that it’s still much better overall than not taking them.
  - Angostura 1y ago
    it made me feel slightly uneasy. Brains are weird
- pipes 1y ago
  Should I have been able to hear something? I feel like my ears need popped now
  - tgv 1y ago
    It's a sine (or sine-like) sound at a low pitch (around G2). Our ears aren't great at those frequencies, and the speaker you use might be bad at that range too. It's a bass frequency, but most bass sounds have a lot of overtones, which makes them sound clearer than the fundamental.
    - pipes 1y ago
      Thanks
- marci 1y ago
  and to test it here (it might be very loud!): CTRL+SHIFT+I and in the console let o, a=new AudioContext(); document.addEventListener("mousedown",function(){ if (o) {o.stop(); o = undefined} else{ o=a.createOscillator(); o.type="sine"; o.frequency.value=100; o.connect(a.destination);o.start()} }) If you click anywhere it will start/stop.
  - skykooler 1y ago
    It sounds like a pitch that you might hear from an airplane propeller, which leads to the question why airsickness exists if the antidote is ambiently present?
fragmede 1y ago
Under capitalism, what do you want? If you went and put in a bunch of your own time, money, and effort into something, is asking for something back so you can put food on the table so reprehensible? I mean, I'd love it if I were independently wealthy and could go off and do a mission like that and just give it away for free, but some of us didn't get a trust fund and have bills to pay and so, is that really so ridiculous?
- therobot24 1y ago
  That's why you use gov to fund reliable research, collective money funding collective good of knowledge
- crotho 1y ago
  Getting paid for work in not capitalism. Capitalism is a private person owning the work someone else does that they put up the capital for.
- jMyles 1y ago
  > is that really so ridiculous? Using the heavy hand of the state to threaten violence against people who make a particular tone... yes that is really so ridiculous. The tone is question is quite close to G2. So, if your guitar is slightly sharp, you'll be making this tone when playing one of the most common chords.
  - borski 1y ago
    Nobody is threatening violence against you for playing your guitar sharp. I have no idea where violence even came into play here. It’s a registered trademark. A registered trademark is a legal designation that provides exclusive rights to a brand name, logo, or other distinctive symbol used to identify a specific product or service; they registered Spice Sound or whatever as a trademark. They did not patent 100Hz. You would only be liable if you walked around playing your sharp guitar with a sign that said “Get your Spice Sound here” heh I’m not defending it, and it reminds me of that woman in Baltimore who pissed everyone off by trademarking “Hon”, causing the whole city to revolt against her. But it’s far from “threatening violence,” and they’re not patenting the sound.
georgeburdell 1y ago
Is using a 100Hz tone to alleviate motion sickness not patent worthy? Does not seem obvious.
laserbeam 1y ago
I first found it hilarious that there are 9 authors for a 10 person experiment, but I double checked. There are multiple experiments with 82 total participants. One of those experiments does indeed have a sample size of 10. Yup, this is still “wait and see”. For these kinds of papers my stance is: “cool read, I won’t click the share button”.
gus_massa 1y ago
Double blind randomized controlled trial or it didn't happen. The subjects have to fill a form. It's common that people want to be nice and lie a little. Also, the exitement of the experiment may make them less focused in the problem, or there may be many other additional effects that are dificult to control. A DBRCT minimize them.
- siddbudd 1y ago
  The participating mice also wanted to be nice and lied to the scientists, as they kept them well fed.
  - gus_massa 1y ago
    There is always a risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans Anyway, if the researchers are not blinded there are many possible sources of errors. Perhaps they do the first test in the morning, the sound just before lunch and the second test in the afternoon is made by another person that is more/less friendly to the rats, or the rats has the stomach more full/empty. After changing a program and running benchmark, I sometimes run it again if the new program is not faster as I expected. I even gave a second chance to deterministic test, that is as useful as it sounds. It's possible that if the rat does not collaborate the researchers hit's the equivalent of Ctr-F5 just to be sure. It's hard to be 100% neutral, so a method is to not know to ensure all rats have exactly the same test conditions.
genkiman 1y ago
[dead]

by bhaney 1y ago

Unblinded, tiny sample size (n=10), and a ridiculous attempt to trademark a pure 100Hz tone. I'm gonna wait for a much better study reproducing this before I put any stock in it, personally.

janalsncm 1y ago

We don’t need a peer reviewed study to test it out. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdi0jQtMqV8&pp https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdi0jQtMqV8&pp

thesparks 1y ago
Am I the only one who started to feel a bit nauseous listening to this? I'm serious.
- pomian 1y ago
  That may be a good thing. Most of the seasickness drugs make you queasy, if you don't go out on a rolling sea after taking them.
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    Uh...no... It would be completely bonkers for an antiemetic to commonly induce an emetic urge in any but rare exceptional cases. Most seasickness drugs are just first-generation antihistamines sometimes combined with a caffeine analogue to counteract the sleepiness. Dramamine/Gravol (dimenhydrinate) is just benadryl (diphenhydramine) plus the caffeine analogue theophylline. Bonine/DramamineII (meclizine) is also a first-generation antihistamine. Promethazine is also a first-generation antihistamine. Non-antihistamine antiemetics like ondansetron or scopolamine transdermal patches require a prescription from a doctor and therefore aren't commonly used for motion sickness except for occupational seafarers. And it would still be absolutely stupid if the drugs given to prevent nausea commonly caused nausea.
    - rzzzt 1y ago
      Why would it be stupid? You are concentrating on the vomiting part but aren't other sensations related to motion sickness like shaky balance that drugs could help out with?
      - OJFord 1y ago
        Not to mention the possibility of triggering a response that the trigger would help combat if you already exhibited the response. Or it simply being an uncommon side effect that it's made worse. Headaches and nausea are listed in possible side effects for just about everything, because if anyone reports it they have to list it since the possibility of causality hasn't been ruled out.
        dcow 1y ago
        Does that mean when death is listed that somebody died during the trial?
      - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
        > You are concentrating on the vomiting part The nausea part. The person I'm replying to specifically said "queasy".
    - DrBenCarson 1y ago
      I think it’s not uncommon for a drug treating some condition with some symptom to have a potential side effect that worsens that symptom. When you start playing with some set of receptors, it’s possible something goes too far or, for whatever reason, not far enough and now we’re worse off See: antidepressants can increase suicidal ideation, cannabis (used for nausea) can cause nausea at higher doses, etc.
      - xico 1y ago
        As an occasional user, can confirm that motion sickness pills (e.g. Cinnarizine, one of the most used in the British Navy) make dizzy, some more than other, and that it’s still much better overall than not taking them.
- Angostura 1y ago
  it made me feel slightly uneasy. Brains are weird
pipes 1y ago
Should I have been able to hear something? I feel like my ears need popped now
- tgv 1y ago
  It's a sine (or sine-like) sound at a low pitch (around G2). Our ears aren't great at those frequencies, and the speaker you use might be bad at that range too. It's a bass frequency, but most bass sounds have a lot of overtones, which makes them sound clearer than the fundamental.
  - pipes 1y ago
    Thanks
marci 1y ago
and to test it here (it might be very loud!): CTRL+SHIFT+I and in the console let o, a=new AudioContext(); document.addEventListener("mousedown",function(){ if (o) {o.stop(); o = undefined} else{ o=a.createOscillator(); o.type="sine"; o.frequency.value=100; o.connect(a.destination);o.start()} }) If you click anywhere it will start/stop.
- skykooler 1y ago
  It sounds like a pitch that you might hear from an airplane propeller, which leads to the question why airsickness exists if the antidote is ambiently present?

fragmede 1y ago

Under capitalism, what do you want? If you went and put in a bunch of your own time, money, and effort into something, is asking for something back so you can put food on the table so reprehensible? I mean, I'd love it if I were independently wealthy and could go off and do a mission like that and just give it away for free, but some of us didn't get a trust fund and have bills to pay and so, is that really so ridiculous?

therobot24 1y ago
That's why you use gov to fund reliable research, collective money funding collective good of knowledge
crotho 1y ago
Getting paid for work in not capitalism. Capitalism is a private person owning the work someone else does that they put up the capital for.
jMyles 1y ago
> is that really so ridiculous? Using the heavy hand of the state to threaten violence against people who make a particular tone... yes that is really so ridiculous. The tone is question is quite close to G2. So, if your guitar is slightly sharp, you'll be making this tone when playing one of the most common chords.
- borski 1y ago
  Nobody is threatening violence against you for playing your guitar sharp. I have no idea where violence even came into play here. It’s a registered trademark. A registered trademark is a legal designation that provides exclusive rights to a brand name, logo, or other distinctive symbol used to identify a specific product or service; they registered Spice Sound or whatever as a trademark. They did not patent 100Hz. You would only be liable if you walked around playing your sharp guitar with a sign that said “Get your Spice Sound here” heh I’m not defending it, and it reminds me of that woman in Baltimore who pissed everyone off by trademarking “Hon”, causing the whole city to revolt against her. But it’s far from “threatening violence,” and they’re not patenting the sound.

georgeburdell 1y ago

Is using a 100Hz tone to alleviate motion sickness not patent worthy? Does not seem obvious.

laserbeam 1y ago

I first found it hilarious that there are 9 authors for a 10 person experiment, but I double checked. There are multiple experiments with 82 total participants. One of those experiments does indeed have a sample size of 10. Yup, this is still “wait and see”. For these kinds of papers my stance is: “cool read, I won’t click the share button”.

gus_massa 1y ago

Double blind randomized controlled trial or it didn't happen. The subjects have to fill a form. It's common that people want to be nice and lie a little. Also, the exitement of the experiment may make them less focused in the problem, or there may be many other additional effects that are dificult to control. A DBRCT minimize them.

siddbudd 1y ago
The participating mice also wanted to be nice and lied to the scientists, as they kept them well fed.
- gus_massa 1y ago
  There is always a risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans Anyway, if the researchers are not blinded there are many possible sources of errors. Perhaps they do the first test in the morning, the sound just before lunch and the second test in the afternoon is made by another person that is more/less friendly to the rats, or the rats has the stomach more full/empty. After changing a program and running benchmark, I sometimes run it again if the new program is not faster as I expected. I even gave a second chance to deterministic test, that is as useful as it sounds. It's possible that if the rat does not collaborate the researchers hit's the equivalent of Ctr-F5 just to be sure. It's hard to be 100% neutral, so a method is to not know to ensure all rats have exactly the same test conditions.

genkiman 1y ago

[dead]