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You convieniently left out the next part in your quote. > why should I propose a penalty which would certainly be an evil? Shall I say imprisonment? And why sh

by alt227 2y ago

You convieniently left out the next part in your quote. > why should I propose a penalty which would certainly be an evil? Shall I say imprisonment? And why should I live in prison, and be the slave of the magistrates of the year—of the Eleven? Or shall the penalty be a fine, and imprisonment until the fine is paid? There is the same objection. He was not talking about exile at this point, but every punishment which is considered evil[kakos], shown by the fact that he mentions fines and imprisonment immediately after. He goes on to mention exile third after these 2. This leads me to believe he thinks death is better than any punishment, as death is the only punishment which contains an unknown. After mulling the outcomes of imprisonment, fines, and exile, he settles on proposing a fine (be it in sarcasm or not). In my opinion there is nothing specific about death vs exile here, only a man showing he is not afraid of death. > Socrates could have three opinions: Exile is worse than death, exile is equivalent to death, exile is better than death. You know what? He could also have the opinion that death is better than a kick in the testicles, but in the same way it is not mentioned in this text ;)

zoogeny 2y ago
> This leads me to believe he thinks death is better than any punishment The fact that he proposes a fine is strong evidence that he doesn't (and is one reason it may be included at all, to counter this assumption effectively). Nor would he reasonably think a slap on the wrist would be worse than death. I don't think your use of "any" in this context is appropriate and only serves to advance your case rather than engage honestly. > He could also have the opinion that death is better than a kick in the testicles Again, as I have said time and time again, Plato is asking us to consider particular alternatives to death. He spends one sentence on imprisonment and then two large paragraphs on exile. That is evidence of the relative importance he places on the specific alternatives. Note he does not bother addressing your "kick to the testicles" opinion. Perhaps you can write an essay on that which will stand the test of thousands of years of consideration. I think you are committed to exile in a personal sense and you are refusing to engage with this dialogue as it was meant in order to avoid facing its implications. I am sorry to treat you so cynically and I wish you luck in your continued intellectual journey.

by alt227 2y ago

zoogeny 2y ago

> This leads me to believe he thinks death is better than any punishment The fact that he proposes a fine is strong evidence that he doesn't (and is one reason it may be included at all, to counter this assumption effectively). Nor would he reasonably think a slap on the wrist would be worse than death. I don't think your use of "any" in this context is appropriate and only serves to advance your case rather than engage honestly. > He could also have the opinion that death is better than a kick in the testicles Again, as I have said time and time again, Plato is asking us to consider particular alternatives to death. He spends one sentence on imprisonment and then two large paragraphs on exile. That is evidence of the relative importance he places on the specific alternatives. Note he does not bother addressing your "kick to the testicles" opinion. Perhaps you can write an essay on that which will stand the test of thousands of years of consideration. I think you are committed to exile in a personal sense and you are refusing to engage with this dialogue as it was meant in order to avoid facing its implications. I am sorry to treat you so cynically and I wish you luck in your continued intellectual journey.