3 ms·

The issue is that by forcing children to identify themselves to access information, be it the internet or a library, etc is that by doing so you are normalising

The issue is that by forcing children to identify themselves to access information, be it the internet or a library, etc is that by doing so you are normalising that there are limits to what knowledge a person is allowed to consume or possess based on who they are. That immediately paves the way for expansion of those restrictions. We see that currently with efforts to "protect the children" by limiting access to things like porn. It's reasonable on it's face but immediately gets weaponised to start banning access to any content that isn't gender or sex normative.

milesrout 2y ago
[flagged]
- bokoharambe 2y ago
  The real question is, what is it that you're so afraid of with gender/sexuality that you think it makes sense to show some expressions of it but not others? Sexual norms change regardless of what is officially considered normative and regardless of what is repressed, so you must know you're fighting a losing battle. So who or what is it exactly that you're fighting for? I think it has more to do with yourself than with children.
- LPisGood 2y ago
  What is it about “sexual subcultures” that are inherently dangerous as opposed to the main culture that is inherently safe. Is a book character being gay unsafe for kids in a way that the same character being straight is not?
- ipaddr 2y ago
  They may be ready that's why they are looking but you might not be.
- lurking_swe 2y ago
  Sounds more like YOU are not ready to handle it, and don’t want to have that discussion (at an age appropriate level) with them. Which is fine. Just don’t give us the BS excuse that your child is too dumb to think critically. Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. If a pre-teen can understand the concept of sex, what’s so difficult about explaining that _some_ people have non-mainstream sexual attraction? A better example is restricting access to actually dangerous ideas, like “Mein Kampf”.
  - b3lvedere 2y ago
    I’ve read the first chapters of Mein Kampf, because i was very curious why the book is forbidden knowledge. It was actually quite easy to download it. I did not like the book at all, but the search to get it was quite exciting. Same with the weirdly Hackers Cookbook. Same with a lot of other so-called dangerous knowledge. I have also seen awful things on the internet that made me physically sick. I have also seen hacks that were so easy i wondered why big huge companies had not thought of that. Point is that restricting will not stop curious kids to search for it and find it. It all taught me to also accept my kids as extremely curious human beings who may not align with your personal points of view and that can sometimes be ok as long as you keep communicating with each other respectfully. Tell them why you think Mein Kampf is bad. Show them things like experiments on MythBusters if they have questions.
    - necovek 2y ago
      Seemed simple to me: one of the first results for "Mein Kampf full text" gave me https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601h.html https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601h.html But yeah, I don't want to be expressly forbidding disagreeable content to my kids, I want them to learn to choose content that is worthwhile themselves.
    - lurking_swe 2y ago
      oh i don’t think any of it should be restricted personally. I was just pointing out that IF we are going to humor that argument at all, i’d rather restrict more dangerous ideas and things. But it’s a slippery slope!
  - milesrout 2y ago
    >If a pre-teen can understand the concept of sex, what’s so difficult about explaining that _some_ people have non-mainstream sexual attraction? They cannot and do not understand that concept which is why exposing them to it is a serious criminal offence.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Teaching minors about sex is a serious criminal offence?
RajT88 2y ago
Indeed. This is how precedents get abused. There is a very intentional framing of "protecting children" while book bans are really targeting what are more fairly described as "young adults". The goal is of course ensuring young adults are only exposed to a certain world view.

milesrout 2y ago

[flagged]

bokoharambe 2y ago
The real question is, what is it that you're so afraid of with gender/sexuality that you think it makes sense to show some expressions of it but not others? Sexual norms change regardless of what is officially considered normative and regardless of what is repressed, so you must know you're fighting a losing battle. So who or what is it exactly that you're fighting for? I think it has more to do with yourself than with children.
LPisGood 2y ago
What is it about “sexual subcultures” that are inherently dangerous as opposed to the main culture that is inherently safe. Is a book character being gay unsafe for kids in a way that the same character being straight is not?
ipaddr 2y ago
They may be ready that's why they are looking but you might not be.
lurking_swe 2y ago
Sounds more like YOU are not ready to handle it, and don’t want to have that discussion (at an age appropriate level) with them. Which is fine. Just don’t give us the BS excuse that your child is too dumb to think critically. Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. If a pre-teen can understand the concept of sex, what’s so difficult about explaining that _some_ people have non-mainstream sexual attraction? A better example is restricting access to actually dangerous ideas, like “Mein Kampf”.
- b3lvedere 2y ago
  I’ve read the first chapters of Mein Kampf, because i was very curious why the book is forbidden knowledge. It was actually quite easy to download it. I did not like the book at all, but the search to get it was quite exciting. Same with the weirdly Hackers Cookbook. Same with a lot of other so-called dangerous knowledge. I have also seen awful things on the internet that made me physically sick. I have also seen hacks that were so easy i wondered why big huge companies had not thought of that. Point is that restricting will not stop curious kids to search for it and find it. It all taught me to also accept my kids as extremely curious human beings who may not align with your personal points of view and that can sometimes be ok as long as you keep communicating with each other respectfully. Tell them why you think Mein Kampf is bad. Show them things like experiments on MythBusters if they have questions.
  - necovek 2y ago
    Seemed simple to me: one of the first results for "Mein Kampf full text" gave me https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601h.html https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601h.html But yeah, I don't want to be expressly forbidding disagreeable content to my kids, I want them to learn to choose content that is worthwhile themselves.
  - lurking_swe 2y ago
    oh i don’t think any of it should be restricted personally. I was just pointing out that IF we are going to humor that argument at all, i’d rather restrict more dangerous ideas and things. But it’s a slippery slope!
- milesrout 2y ago
  >If a pre-teen can understand the concept of sex, what’s so difficult about explaining that _some_ people have non-mainstream sexual attraction? They cannot and do not understand that concept which is why exposing them to it is a serious criminal offence.
  - squigz 2y ago
    Teaching minors about sex is a serious criminal offence?

RajT88 2y ago

Indeed. This is how precedents get abused. There is a very intentional framing of "protecting children" while book bans are really targeting what are more fairly described as "young adults". The goal is of course ensuring young adults are only exposed to a certain world view.