3 ms·

Now interpret :-) "...lied about the distance covered...."

by belter 2y ago

gruez 2y ago
Given this hinges entirely on what is meant by "trip meter", and the little tidbit is only mentioned in passing with no elaboration, I think it's fine to question what exactly the author meant. That quote works equally as well if they were complaining about the range meter rather than the odometer. If the range meter said there was 200 mi left, then said 100 mi left after only driving 60 mi, I'd be pretty miffed, and might even claimed that it "lied".
- belter 2y ago
  https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ "...This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures. These methodologies influence not just warranty expiration timelines, service monetization, insurance premium structures, leasing mileage penalties, resale valuations, residual-value forecasting, and regulatory credit calculations but also underpin battery health indicators, vehicle range, recorded energy efficiency, and much more. Consequently, Tesla's business model exhibits a unique systemic reliance on odometer accuracy, rendering mileage reporting a fundamental rather than peripheral concern..." -
  - gruez 2y ago
    >This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures This is the "they have a patent!" argument all over again. Just because such algorithms exist, doesn't mean they're used in the odometers. It's not even suspicious that they have such algorithms. Batteries are far more complicated than a fuel tank, so even if they weren't trying to fudge odometer ratings, you'd expect them to come up with such algorithms. Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?
    - belter 2y ago
      It's not just about the patent: https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard How difficult is to admit the man is not Tony Stark, he is just a psycho...
      - gruez 2y ago
        >It's not just about the patent: https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard This is about the third time I brought this objection, but you still haven't addressed it: "Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?" >How difficult is to admit the man is not Tony Stark, he is just a psycho... Quit moving the goalposts.
        belter 2y ago
        Empirical tests did not catch diesel gate. As I mentioned before plaintiff has low chances. The court will never get their hands on the source code, and Tesla can just roll one of their overnight updates. Also per the argument in the lawsuit, it get's worst as you get close to warranty expiration. Maybe there is a surprise witness they did not disclosed yet.
        gruez 2y ago
        >Empirical tests did not catch diesel gate. It literally was. If you check the wikipedia page, you'd see that it was discovered because researchers from West Virginia University were testing emissions, and found it generated more emissions than expected. They weren't filing lawsuits on some vague suspicion, like the emissions smelled worse than normal, or they found some shady patents. Moreover the diselgate comparison fails because evidence of cheating in odometers are trivial to collect, compared to emissions cheating. >Also per the argument in the lawsuit, it get's worst as you get close to warranty expiration. Again, with all the legwork they put into making that site, they can't find a Tesla owner that's close to warranty expiration? I suppose the latter might be more work, but if you're filing a lawsuit surely you'd want a slam dunk case, rather than beating around the bush with vague circumstantial evidence? >The court will never get their hands on the source code, and Tesla can just roll one of their overnight updates. [...] Maybe there is a surprise witness they did not disclosed it yet. That's not how lawsuits work. One of the first things that happen in a lawsuit is discovery, where each side can ask the other side to produce documents relevant to the lawsuit, like the odometer source code. Conversely "surprise witnesses" aren't a thing outside of courtroom dramas. The entire process is ensure the trial is over the facts of the case, rather how well each side can blindside the other with surprise witnesses/evidence.

Now interpret :-) "...lied about the distance covered...."

by belter 2y ago

Now interpret :-) "...lied about the distance covered...."

Given this hinges entirely on what is meant by "trip meter", and the little tidbit is only mentioned in passing with no elaboration, I think it's fine to question what exactly the author meant. That quote works equally as well if they were complaining about the range meter rather than the odometer. If the range meter said there was 200 mi left, then said 100 mi left after only driving 60 mi, I'd be pretty miffed, and might even claimed that it "lied".

belter 2y ago
https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ "...This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures. These methodologies influence not just warranty expiration timelines, service monetization, insurance premium structures, leasing mileage penalties, resale valuations, residual-value forecasting, and regulatory credit calculations but also underpin battery health indicators, vehicle range, recorded energy efficiency, and much more. Consequently, Tesla's business model exhibits a unique systemic reliance on odometer accuracy, rendering mileage reporting a fundamental rather than peripheral concern..." -
- gruez 2y ago
  >This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures This is the "they have a patent!" argument all over again. Just because such algorithms exist, doesn't mean they're used in the odometers. It's not even suspicious that they have such algorithms. Batteries are far more complicated than a fuel tank, so even if they weren't trying to fudge odometer ratings, you'd expect them to come up with such algorithms. Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?
  - belter 2y ago
    It's not just about the patent: https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard How difficult is to admit the man is not Tony Stark, he is just a psycho...
    - gruez 2y ago
      >It's not just about the patent: https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/tesla-research-dashboard This is about the third time I brought this objection, but you still haven't addressed it: "Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?" >How difficult is to admit the man is not Tony Stark, he is just a psycho... Quit moving the goalposts.
      - belter 2y ago
        Empirical tests did not catch diesel gate. As I mentioned before plaintiff has low chances. The court will never get their hands on the source code, and Tesla can just roll one of their overnight updates. Also per the argument in the lawsuit, it get's worst as you get close to warranty expiration. Maybe there is a surprise witness they did not disclosed yet.
        gruez 2y ago
        >Empirical tests did not catch diesel gate. It literally was. If you check the wikipedia page, you'd see that it was discovered because researchers from West Virginia University were testing emissions, and found it generated more emissions than expected. They weren't filing lawsuits on some vague suspicion, like the emissions smelled worse than normal, or they found some shady patents. Moreover the diselgate comparison fails because evidence of cheating in odometers are trivial to collect, compared to emissions cheating. >Also per the argument in the lawsuit, it get's worst as you get close to warranty expiration. Again, with all the legwork they put into making that site, they can't find a Tesla owner that's close to warranty expiration? I suppose the latter might be more work, but if you're filing a lawsuit surely you'd want a slam dunk case, rather than beating around the bush with vague circumstantial evidence? >The court will never get their hands on the source code, and Tesla can just roll one of their overnight updates. [...] Maybe there is a surprise witness they did not disclosed it yet. That's not how lawsuits work. One of the first things that happen in a lawsuit is discovery, where each side can ask the other side to produce documents relevant to the lawsuit, like the odometer source code. Conversely "surprise witnesses" aren't a thing outside of courtroom dramas. The entire process is ensure the trial is over the facts of the case, rather how well each side can blindside the other with surprise witnesses/evidence.