5 ms·

I have begun taking my children to the local library, and I am shocked at how bad the selection is. There are very few books of lasting value in any part of the

I have begun taking my children to the local library, and I am shocked at how bad the selection is. There are very few books of lasting value in any part of the library. Nothing of serious or intellectual interest. And were I to give a factual description of the childrens and teens sections, I would get banned by dang. This is wildly different from the collections that I grew up with, in libraries trashed now by standard publishing spam, despite having vastly more money and space than they did when I was a kid. Poorly curated libraries (though often staffed to the gills with "librarians") are a gaping cultural void and vacuum, while well-curated libraries are an important treasure. Good curation has little or nothing to do with "battling" misinformation/censorship, which in practice always seems to be about librarians championing a very bland and particular political monoculture. Good curation is the art of discerning the important, the unique, and the interesting, and avoiding the vast flows of spam that overwhelm everything these days.

kccqzy 1y ago
I don't doubt you, but in many locations you don't have to take your children to the local library. For example I lived in Sunnyvale for a long time, and yet after visiting the nearby libraries I decided to get a library card at the Mountain View public library. It doesn't matter I don't live or work in Mountain View.
- romaaeterna 1y ago
  In this particular city, at least, it's cultural malaise, and one that is hard to escape just by going to another branch. That said, there are some good used bookstores out here (not the big chain stores) that have great collections.
Amezarak 1y ago
That’s because librarians have been making a concerted effort to “deaccession” (throw them into the dumpster or send them for pulping) old books, no matter how valuable. Often this teeters into ideological territory - old books might contain unacceptable thoughts. Libraries are now seen as entertainment centers by many librarians, not as a place to educate yourself. In some places it’s particularly absurd, for example, here’s one that had the school libraries junk anything written before 2008: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peel-school-board-library-book-weeding-1.6964332 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peel-school-board-lib... A second awful thing is this usually goes along with the idea that “well, it’s available online” - even as those resources are lost. There’s a lot of long tail works on niche historical, scientific, and technical topics that have been lost forever, aside from the loss of serendipity from discovering this books in your library and reading them. In the past 20 years, my local library system has deaccessioned nearly every work from Ancient Rome and Greece. This is happening not just as small local libraries like mine, though, but even at large, old research libraries.
- geerlingguy 1y ago
  It's definitely a double edged sword. Librarians can plant seeds for thought and introspection. They can also wield the sword of censorship, hiding or discarding books they don't personally like, and fronting all the ones they do.
- hx8 1y ago
  > Libraries are now seen as entertainment centers by many librarians, not as a place to educate yourself. I think you might be missing that there are many different types of libraries. For a city or county library, they have to meet the very diverse needs of the local residents.
  - Amezarak 1y ago
    Yet these same local libraries used to be filled with the sorts of books I'm talking about. They threw them away to replace them with DVDs of Marvel movies, the worst dreck imaginable in the children's section, and shelves and shelves of the latest romance and mystery novels, along with whatever "hot" ghostwritten politics book is out. Frankly, I look at that is abandoning their original mission and no longer feel inclined to support them in any way. Libraries should have led their communities as centers and sources of learning. What we have now is something else wearing libraries as a skinsuit, and I don't see why libraries like this deserve public support as a library. But at any rate, as I said, the problem is not limited to municipal libraries, it's ongoing even at institutional libraries.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  Just a few days ago, I visited the community college library reference desk. We were discussing and browsing the shrinking stacks of reference volumes. I commented that some of these extant books must be kept because it was difficult to typeset or compile them electronically, and I pointed out a “Lakota language dictionary”... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_language but the reference librarian immediately disagreed with me, and she said that electronic resources were great and fantastic and better, and there is nothing of value that cannot be electronically reproduced... So I did not argue, because the Lady of the House is always right
sapphicsnail 1y ago
> There are very few books of lasting value in any part of the library. Nothing of serious or intellectual interest. I've noticed this at my library as well. I was shocked that there wasn't a copy of Spinoza's Ethics which seems kinda basic. That being said, I think people underestimate how much garbage each generation produces. Past generations have done the work of curating the good stuff of their time for us. > And were I to give a factual description of the childrens and teens sections, I would get banned by dang. I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about but I'm going to take a leap and assume you're complaining about the presence of LQBTQ books in the library. I've noticed this trend where conservatives think that any book with queer characters is sexual by definition. People get upset by children's books with 2 dads that are just like any other book and it's honestly tiring. Queer people exist and have normal, boring lives and there's nothing inherently sexual or pornagraphic about that.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- StefanBatory 1y ago
  Let's not jump to the gun here. It could be as well that there's nothing there, or so on. And being accused of something you didn't is something I think we'd all want to not deal with. That being said, I do also very much hope it's not what you say because I've been noticing that trend too :(
- romaaeterna 1y ago
  In a world with so many different opinions, where you know neither my nation or city or native language, it's odd that you would immediately jump to this. After all, my library could be run by Scientologists attempting to propagandize children, or Soviet-era revanchist apologists, or so on. Regardless of what material it is, yes, anyone who propagandizes children really is "dangerous", and not in the fake patronizing way that the the author of the article means it either.
  - sapphicsnail 1y ago
    > After all, my library could be run by Scientologists attempting to propagandize children, or Soviet-era I admitted it was a leap and you're absolutely free to clarify what you meant instead of pointing out some ridiculous edge cases without explaining yourself. > Regardless of what material it is, yes, anyone who propagandizes children really is "dangerous", and not in the fake patronizing way that the the author of the article means it either. I don't see how having books with queer characters is propaganda but having books with straight characters isn't. I'm queer and I don't go around insisting that people ban Christian books from the children's section even though I think those values aren't great.
wrycoder 1y ago
My town votes 50/50 Republican/Democrat, yet our newly rebuilt library is filled with lib/women oriented non-fiction and contemporary women’s pulp fiction. They no longer even have paper sets of encyclopedias. It’s not possible to learn much about science or technology there anymore - they weeded much of that out during the remodeling.
- dpkirchner 1y ago
  Bummer. Do you have to go far to find another library that has paper encyclopedias when you need to look up some texts?
  - 9x39 1y ago
    Science and tech is obsolete like the format of paper encyclopedias? (It isn't.) It's worth considering if a short-term focus on stocking fad romantasy comes at the long-term expense of a body of knowledge. Consider the classic value of college degrees - they're (largely) not optimized for fad pop knowledge or even vocational skills, instead optimizing for a rounded body of knowledge considered to be broadly 'educated'.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  They are likely stocking the books their users are asking for. If you ask for something else I'm sure they can get that too.
- dahart 1y ago
  > They no longer even have paper sets of encyclopedias. Why would they? With Wikipedia being freely and always available and up to date, and most/all for-profit encyclopedias being online now, who goes to the library to use a paper encyclopedia? Have you used a paper encyclopedia recently? I haven’t for decades, but I still visit the library. Google tells me World Book is the only encyclopedia left doing print runs, and it’s more geared toward students, so maybe only purchased by schools. I wouldn’t hold up paper encyclopedias as evidence of what the library has or doesn’t have.
- BeFlatXIII 1y ago
grandempire 1y ago
Libraries vary greatly in quality. I don’t know why this is downvoted.
- fknorangesite 1y ago
  Because they're dancing around specific complaints and this line, for example, > were I to give a factual description of the childrens and teens sections, I would get banned by dang. reeks of "I don't want LGBTQ representation in my library" or similar. If I'm wrong, so be it. But the commenter isn't helping their own case.
  - grandempire 1y ago
    > reeks of "I don't want LGBTQ representation in my library" or similar. Hmm I thought that libraries promoting lgbt content to kids was a conspiracy theory.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      "Promoting it" is. "Making it available so that kids who are are undergoing changes they don't understand but desperately need to learn about" is not.
      - grandempire 1y ago
        Ok, I don’t think OPs comment is about eliminating lgbt books from the library.
  - tourmalinetaco 1y ago
    Dang has no problem with lgbt representation, so that couldn’t be the problem. So what could be rampant in the children/teen sections that is banned from this site but is simultaneously synonymous in your mind to the lgb movement?

kccqzy 1y ago

I don't doubt you, but in many locations you don't have to take your children to the local library. For example I lived in Sunnyvale for a long time, and yet after visiting the nearby libraries I decided to get a library card at the Mountain View public library. It doesn't matter I don't live or work in Mountain View.

romaaeterna 1y ago
In this particular city, at least, it's cultural malaise, and one that is hard to escape just by going to another branch. That said, there are some good used bookstores out here (not the big chain stores) that have great collections.

Amezarak 1y ago

That’s because librarians have been making a concerted effort to “deaccession” (throw them into the dumpster or send them for pulping) old books, no matter how valuable. Often this teeters into ideological territory - old books might contain unacceptable thoughts. Libraries are now seen as entertainment centers by many librarians, not as a place to educate yourself. In some places it’s particularly absurd, for example, here’s one that had the school libraries junk anything written before 2008: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peel-school-board-library-book-weeding-1.6964332 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peel-school-board-lib... A second awful thing is this usually goes along with the idea that “well, it’s available online” - even as those resources are lost. There’s a lot of long tail works on niche historical, scientific, and technical topics that have been lost forever, aside from the loss of serendipity from discovering this books in your library and reading them. In the past 20 years, my local library system has deaccessioned nearly every work from Ancient Rome and Greece. This is happening not just as small local libraries like mine, though, but even at large, old research libraries.

geerlingguy 1y ago
It's definitely a double edged sword. Librarians can plant seeds for thought and introspection. They can also wield the sword of censorship, hiding or discarding books they don't personally like, and fronting all the ones they do.
hx8 1y ago
> Libraries are now seen as entertainment centers by many librarians, not as a place to educate yourself. I think you might be missing that there are many different types of libraries. For a city or county library, they have to meet the very diverse needs of the local residents.
- Amezarak 1y ago
  Yet these same local libraries used to be filled with the sorts of books I'm talking about. They threw them away to replace them with DVDs of Marvel movies, the worst dreck imaginable in the children's section, and shelves and shelves of the latest romance and mystery novels, along with whatever "hot" ghostwritten politics book is out. Frankly, I look at that is abandoning their original mission and no longer feel inclined to support them in any way. Libraries should have led their communities as centers and sources of learning. What we have now is something else wearing libraries as a skinsuit, and I don't see why libraries like this deserve public support as a library. But at any rate, as I said, the problem is not limited to municipal libraries, it's ongoing even at institutional libraries.
AStonesThrow 1y ago
Just a few days ago, I visited the community college library reference desk. We were discussing and browsing the shrinking stacks of reference volumes. I commented that some of these extant books must be kept because it was difficult to typeset or compile them electronically, and I pointed out a “Lakota language dictionary”... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_language but the reference librarian immediately disagreed with me, and she said that electronic resources were great and fantastic and better, and there is nothing of value that cannot be electronically reproduced... So I did not argue, because the Lady of the House is always right

sapphicsnail 1y ago

> There are very few books of lasting value in any part of the library. Nothing of serious or intellectual interest. I've noticed this at my library as well. I was shocked that there wasn't a copy of Spinoza's Ethics which seems kinda basic. That being said, I think people underestimate how much garbage each generation produces. Past generations have done the work of curating the good stuff of their time for us. > And were I to give a factual description of the childrens and teens sections, I would get banned by dang. I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about but I'm going to take a leap and assume you're complaining about the presence of LQBTQ books in the library. I've noticed this trend where conservatives think that any book with queer characters is sexual by definition. People get upset by children's books with 2 dads that are just like any other book and it's honestly tiring. Queer people exist and have normal, boring lives and there's nothing inherently sexual or pornagraphic about that.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
StefanBatory 1y ago
Let's not jump to the gun here. It could be as well that there's nothing there, or so on. And being accused of something you didn't is something I think we'd all want to not deal with. That being said, I do also very much hope it's not what you say because I've been noticing that trend too :(
romaaeterna 1y ago
In a world with so many different opinions, where you know neither my nation or city or native language, it's odd that you would immediately jump to this. After all, my library could be run by Scientologists attempting to propagandize children, or Soviet-era revanchist apologists, or so on. Regardless of what material it is, yes, anyone who propagandizes children really is "dangerous", and not in the fake patronizing way that the the author of the article means it either.
- sapphicsnail 1y ago
  > After all, my library could be run by Scientologists attempting to propagandize children, or Soviet-era I admitted it was a leap and you're absolutely free to clarify what you meant instead of pointing out some ridiculous edge cases without explaining yourself. > Regardless of what material it is, yes, anyone who propagandizes children really is "dangerous", and not in the fake patronizing way that the the author of the article means it either. I don't see how having books with queer characters is propaganda but having books with straight characters isn't. I'm queer and I don't go around insisting that people ban Christian books from the children's section even though I think those values aren't great.

wrycoder 1y ago

My town votes 50/50 Republican/Democrat, yet our newly rebuilt library is filled with lib/women oriented non-fiction and contemporary women’s pulp fiction. They no longer even have paper sets of encyclopedias. It’s not possible to learn much about science or technology there anymore - they weeded much of that out during the remodeling.

dpkirchner 1y ago
Bummer. Do you have to go far to find another library that has paper encyclopedias when you need to look up some texts?
- 9x39 1y ago
  Science and tech is obsolete like the format of paper encyclopedias? (It isn't.) It's worth considering if a short-term focus on stocking fad romantasy comes at the long-term expense of a body of knowledge. Consider the classic value of college degrees - they're (largely) not optimized for fad pop knowledge or even vocational skills, instead optimizing for a rounded body of knowledge considered to be broadly 'educated'.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
They are likely stocking the books their users are asking for. If you ask for something else I'm sure they can get that too.
dahart 1y ago
> They no longer even have paper sets of encyclopedias. Why would they? With Wikipedia being freely and always available and up to date, and most/all for-profit encyclopedias being online now, who goes to the library to use a paper encyclopedia? Have you used a paper encyclopedia recently? I haven’t for decades, but I still visit the library. Google tells me World Book is the only encyclopedia left doing print runs, and it’s more geared toward students, so maybe only purchased by schools. I wouldn’t hold up paper encyclopedias as evidence of what the library has or doesn’t have.
BeFlatXIII 1y ago

grandempire 1y ago

Libraries vary greatly in quality. I don’t know why this is downvoted.

fknorangesite 1y ago
Because they're dancing around specific complaints and this line, for example, > were I to give a factual description of the childrens and teens sections, I would get banned by dang. reeks of "I don't want LGBTQ representation in my library" or similar. If I'm wrong, so be it. But the commenter isn't helping their own case.
- grandempire 1y ago
  > reeks of "I don't want LGBTQ representation in my library" or similar. Hmm I thought that libraries promoting lgbt content to kids was a conspiracy theory.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    "Promoting it" is. "Making it available so that kids who are are undergoing changes they don't understand but desperately need to learn about" is not.
    - grandempire 1y ago
      Ok, I don’t think OPs comment is about eliminating lgbt books from the library.
- tourmalinetaco 1y ago
  Dang has no problem with lgbt representation, so that couldn’t be the problem. So what could be rampant in the children/teen sections that is banned from this site but is simultaneously synonymous in your mind to the lgb movement?