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The delay is more likely due to zero demand. Just reason 129th not to own a Tesla: "Tesla speeds up odometers to avoid warranty repairs, US lawsuit claims" - h

by belter 2y ago

The delay is more likely due to zero demand. Just reason 129th not to own a Tesla: "Tesla speeds up odometers to avoid warranty repairs, US lawsuit claims" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43723865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43723865

gruez 2y ago
I'm disappointment how unrigorous that lawsuit is. Their argument basically relies on the fact there's a patent filing that vaguely mentions this, and that the odometer sped up even though the plaintiff's driving habits haven't changed. Those are certainly reasons to be suspicious, but aren't exactly smoking guns. Plenty of things are patented but aren't implemented in reality, and we only have the plaintiff's word that there's no other change in driving behavior that could have accounted for the extra mileage. If they're spending all this time drafting a legal complaint, surely they can do a carefully controlled empirical test?
- belter 2y ago
  The lawsuit has low chances of succeeding but not on the merits. It exposes a regulatory gray area, both in the US and in the EU. Existing laws focus on tampering, not manufacturer accuracy. "Tesla odometer mileage vs actual miles discrepancy" - https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odometer_mileage_vs_actual_miles_discrepancy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome... "...Besides the disappointing result in the range test, the Tesla Model 3 had quite an unusual issue–its onboard trip meter was way off and essentially lied about the distance covered...." - https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norway-2025/ https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43736091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43736091
  - gruez 2y ago
    >"Tesla odometer mileage vs actual miles discrepancy" - https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome... This is just more of the same - vague anecdotes. Why dig up 2 year old reddit posts to try to prove your case, when you can definitively prove it with a day's worth of test drives? >"...Besides the disappointing result in the range test, the Tesla Model 3 had quite an unusual issue–its onboard trip meter was way off and essentially lied about the distance covered...." - https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa... Is "trip meter" referring to the odometer, or the "estimated range" meter that's also displayed?
    - belter 2y ago
      Now interpret :-) "...lied about the distance covered...."
      - gruez 2y ago
        Given this hinges entirely on what is meant by "trip meter", and the little tidbit is only mentioned in passing with no elaboration, I think it's fine to question what exactly the author meant. That quote works equally as well if they were complaining about the range meter rather than the odometer. If the range meter said there was 200 mi left, then said 100 mi left after only driving 60 mi, I'd be pretty miffed, and might even claimed that it "lied".
        belter 2y ago
        https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ "...This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures. These methodologies influence not just warranty expiration timelines, service monetization, insurance premium structures, leasing mileage penalties, resale valuations, residual-value forecasting, and regulatory credit calculations but also underpin battery health indicators, vehicle range, recorded energy efficiency, and much more. Consequently, Tesla's business model exhibits a unique systemic reliance on odometer accuracy, rendering mileage reporting a fundamental rather than peripheral concern..." -
        gruez 2y ago
        >This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures This is the "they have a patent!" argument all over again. Just because such algorithms exist, doesn't mean they're used in the odometers. It's not even suspicious that they have such algorithms. Batteries are far more complicated than a fuel tank, so even if they weren't trying to fudge odometer ratings, you'd expect them to come up with such algorithms. Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?

by belter 2y ago

gruez 2y ago

I'm disappointment how unrigorous that lawsuit is. Their argument basically relies on the fact there's a patent filing that vaguely mentions this, and that the odometer sped up even though the plaintiff's driving habits haven't changed. Those are certainly reasons to be suspicious, but aren't exactly smoking guns. Plenty of things are patented but aren't implemented in reality, and we only have the plaintiff's word that there's no other change in driving behavior that could have accounted for the extra mileage. If they're spending all this time drafting a legal complaint, surely they can do a carefully controlled empirical test?

belter 2y ago
The lawsuit has low chances of succeeding but not on the merits. It exposes a regulatory gray area, both in the US and in the EU. Existing laws focus on tampering, not manufacturer accuracy. "Tesla odometer mileage vs actual miles discrepancy" - https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odometer_mileage_vs_actual_miles_discrepancy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome... "...Besides the disappointing result in the range test, the Tesla Model 3 had quite an unusual issue–its onboard trip meter was way off and essentially lied about the distance covered...." - https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norway-2025/ https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43736091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43736091
- gruez 2y ago
  >"Tesla odometer mileage vs actual miles discrepancy" - https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome https://www.reddit.com/r/ModelY/comments/106m2dz/tesla_odome... This is just more of the same - vague anecdotes. Why dig up 2 year old reddit posts to try to prove your case, when you can definitively prove it with a day's worth of test drives? >"...Besides the disappointing result in the range test, the Tesla Model 3 had quite an unusual issue–its onboard trip meter was way off and essentially lied about the distance covered...." - https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa https://insideevs.com/news/747548/ev-winter-range-test-norwa... Is "trip meter" referring to the odometer, or the "estimated range" meter that's also displayed?
  - belter 2y ago
    Now interpret :-) "...lied about the distance covered...."
    - gruez 2y ago
      Given this hinges entirely on what is meant by "trip meter", and the little tidbit is only mentioned in passing with no elaboration, I think it's fine to question what exactly the author meant. That quote works equally as well if they were complaining about the range meter rather than the odometer. If the range meter said there was 200 mi left, then said 100 mi left after only driving 60 mi, I'd be pretty miffed, and might even claimed that it "lied".
      - belter 2y ago
        https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ https://nyreehinton.com/pages/tesla/ "...This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures. These methodologies influence not just warranty expiration timelines, service monetization, insurance premium structures, leasing mileage penalties, resale valuations, residual-value forecasting, and regulatory credit calculations but also underpin battery health indicators, vehicle range, recorded energy efficiency, and much more. Consequently, Tesla's business model exhibits a unique systemic reliance on odometer accuracy, rendering mileage reporting a fundamental rather than peripheral concern..." -
        gruez 2y ago
        >This analysis identifies over fourteen distinct mileage calculation methods employed by Tesla—ranging from predictive telemetry algorithms to energy-consumption-based estimations—documented explicitly in patent filings and regulatory disclosures This is the "they have a patent!" argument all over again. Just because such algorithms exist, doesn't mean they're used in the odometers. It's not even suspicious that they have such algorithms. Batteries are far more complicated than a fuel tank, so even if they weren't trying to fudge odometer ratings, you'd expect them to come up with such algorithms. Finally, you still don't have a response to my main objection: why haven't done an empirical test? They spent all this time making data requests, looking up tesla patents, and digging up old reddit posts, but can't spend a day driving a tesla around to compare what the odometer says vs google maps/another car. What gives?