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> I got bullied at school in North Derbyshire for speaking “too posh”. Isn't it fascinating that people judge accents harshly? After all, if we can understand

> I got bullied at school in North Derbyshire for speaking “too posh”. Isn't it fascinating that people judge accents harshly? After all, if we can understand one another, what's the problem? The problem is social stratification within a power structure. Here's a related BBC article from earlier this year. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyjdyj729ro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyjdyj729ro

mr_toad 2y ago
> Isn't it fascinating that people judge accents harshly? After all, if we can understand one another, what's the problem? Two populations in close proximity separated by social differences will develop accents and use those accents to differentiate themselves. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
switch007 2y ago
> if we can understand one another, what's the problem? The accent is just being used a heuristic of where you're from, which is the actual judgement. Posh = not from round here. Northerners are famously insular and protective of their communities (I love them for it but I think it can go a bit far sometimes)
- Ichthypresbyter 2y ago
  >Posh = not from round here. Perhaps the best example of that is that, as one of the linked maps [0] says, both British people who rhyme "scone" with "gone" and those who rhyme it with "alone" think that the other pronunciation is the "posh" one. [0]https://starkeycomics.com/2024/05/10/eight-british-and-irish-accent-maps/ https://starkeycomics.com/2024/05/10/eight-british-and-irish...
- heresie-dabord 2y ago
  Would you say that the usage of "posh" has drifted significantly to the third meaning? https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh
vladvasiliu 2y ago
I'm not familiar with the Brits so can't comment on the specifics there. However, as a kid, I had a similar experience in a completely different country when we moved cities. My accent wasn't "posh" or "higher class" in any way, it was just from a different region. Kids would give me a hard time for it. But the exact same would happen in reverse form in the other region. Guess people just don't like "outsiders".
- Toenex 2y ago
  In the UK people from Liverpool and Manchester are rivals until they meet someone from London when it becomes a North Vs South thing. That all changes again when they meet someone from Glasgow when it becomes England Vs Scotland and yet again when the British meet someone French. There is always a more foreign foe.
  - IIsi50MHz 2y ago
    The concept of the everchanging {in-group vs. out-group} is especially present in Japanese culture. It strongly affects wordchoice, too. Within a family, father might be chichi or, in more formal families, otousan, but it speaking of fathers to someone outside your family, you might refer to your father as chichi, and any other father as otousan.
bombela 2y ago
Adding my story to the list. I grew up in France, from white parents, classical music professionals, catholic practicing. With what I now recognize as a posh french accent, that they consciously learned as a way to climb the social ladder. I went to the town school where 80% of the students were descendent of North African immigrants, mostly from Algeria. Most of those kids lived in projects city, and part of their identity is a specific accent differentiating them from the outside of the project city. This accent is not really related to Arabic; it is distinctively different; with what I can only describe as a palpable aggressivity in tone. I ended up under police protection after a few broken limbs. This was more than 25y ago. Sometimes I wonder what those kids have become. If they sometimes regret. As recently as a couple years ago, a white posh accent kid at the same school got bullied and almost suffocated to death with a fire extinguisher. By the next generation of those immigrants. I am now an immigrant in the Bay Area. Nobody cares about my accent here ;)
- heresie-dabord 2y ago
  > school where 80% of the students were descendent of North African immigrants, mostly from Algeria. Ah, the Colonial power structure. A gift that keeps on giving. But tribalism runs deep too. > in the Bay Area. Nobody cares about my accent here For the most part in the modern US, money=caste. Tribalism still runs deep (see: US politics) but how people pronounce isn't such a factor as it can be in the EU and in the UK. As you are probably aware, French in Canada is also a many-caste system.

mr_toad 2y ago

> Isn't it fascinating that people judge accents harshly? After all, if we can understand one another, what's the problem? Two populations in close proximity separated by social differences will develop accents and use those accents to differentiate themselves. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

switch007 2y ago

> if we can understand one another, what's the problem? The accent is just being used a heuristic of where you're from, which is the actual judgement. Posh = not from round here. Northerners are famously insular and protective of their communities (I love them for it but I think it can go a bit far sometimes)

Ichthypresbyter 2y ago
>Posh = not from round here. Perhaps the best example of that is that, as one of the linked maps [0] says, both British people who rhyme "scone" with "gone" and those who rhyme it with "alone" think that the other pronunciation is the "posh" one. [0]https://starkeycomics.com/2024/05/10/eight-british-and-irish-accent-maps/ https://starkeycomics.com/2024/05/10/eight-british-and-irish...
heresie-dabord 2y ago
Would you say that the usage of "posh" has drifted significantly to the third meaning? https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh

vladvasiliu 2y ago

I'm not familiar with the Brits so can't comment on the specifics there. However, as a kid, I had a similar experience in a completely different country when we moved cities. My accent wasn't "posh" or "higher class" in any way, it was just from a different region. Kids would give me a hard time for it. But the exact same would happen in reverse form in the other region. Guess people just don't like "outsiders".

Toenex 2y ago
In the UK people from Liverpool and Manchester are rivals until they meet someone from London when it becomes a North Vs South thing. That all changes again when they meet someone from Glasgow when it becomes England Vs Scotland and yet again when the British meet someone French. There is always a more foreign foe.
- IIsi50MHz 2y ago
  The concept of the everchanging {in-group vs. out-group} is especially present in Japanese culture. It strongly affects wordchoice, too. Within a family, father might be chichi or, in more formal families, otousan, but it speaking of fathers to someone outside your family, you might refer to your father as chichi, and any other father as otousan.

bombela 2y ago

Adding my story to the list. I grew up in France, from white parents, classical music professionals, catholic practicing. With what I now recognize as a posh french accent, that they consciously learned as a way to climb the social ladder. I went to the town school where 80% of the students were descendent of North African immigrants, mostly from Algeria. Most of those kids lived in projects city, and part of their identity is a specific accent differentiating them from the outside of the project city. This accent is not really related to Arabic; it is distinctively different; with what I can only describe as a palpable aggressivity in tone. I ended up under police protection after a few broken limbs. This was more than 25y ago. Sometimes I wonder what those kids have become. If they sometimes regret. As recently as a couple years ago, a white posh accent kid at the same school got bullied and almost suffocated to death with a fire extinguisher. By the next generation of those immigrants. I am now an immigrant in the Bay Area. Nobody cares about my accent here ;)

heresie-dabord 2y ago
> school where 80% of the students were descendent of North African immigrants, mostly from Algeria. Ah, the Colonial power structure. A gift that keeps on giving. But tribalism runs deep too. > in the Bay Area. Nobody cares about my accent here For the most part in the modern US, money=caste. Tribalism still runs deep (see: US politics) but how people pronounce isn't such a factor as it can be in the EU and in the UK. As you are probably aware, French in Canada is also a many-caste system.