4 ms·

> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. Aft

by rasz 2y ago

> if Poland had homegrown 8-bit micros in the mid-80s Personal possession of Home computers, printers and copiers was illegal in Poland under Iron Curtain. After all it could be, and often was [1], used to undermine the regime! Anecdote from book "High-tech behind the Iron Curtain. Electronics, computers and control systems in the Polish People's Republic" ("High-tech za żelazną kurtyną. Elektronika, komputery i systemy sterowania w PRL" 978-83-8098-094-5) >In 1984, "Informatyka" magazine, involved in the dissemination of these machines, reported on the adventures of Mr. Przemysław, who received in April [...] a package from his brother in Toronto, containing the VIC-20 microcomputer, power supply, cassette recorder, a set of cassettes for television games and English language manual and connecting cables. The Customs Office in Gdynia refused to issue an import license, stating that it could issue [...] only if the computer was necessary for the citizen's professional or scientific work Computers became legal somewhere around 1985 when Atari landed in special regime Pewex enterprise shops - shops only accepting hard western currency, currency illegal to own privately in the country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewex Elwro computers were sold to ministry of education or send to USSR sold for "transfer ruble", a fake currency with ridiculous fake official dollar exchange rate making every sale a huge loss for the factory. There were amateur DIY plans published in magazines, COBRA in AUDIO VIDEO and CA80 in Radioelektronik. Nobody was manufacturing those computers and afaik plans were being published during design and debugging making recreation a nightmare. >99% of 80s computers in Polish homes came smuggled from the west and most went straight to garbage in late nineties. Poland freed from russian occupation was getting wealthy really fast and nobody had time for obsoleted hardware. [1] https://hackaday.com/2016/07/05/retrotechtacular-how-solidarity-hacked-polish-tv/ https://hackaday.com/2016/07/05/retrotechtacular-how-solidar...

mrandish 2y ago
Holy &#$^!!! And I thought owning a 4K microcomputer as a suburban California teenager in 1981 was lonely and hard! No one in my family's extended network had a computer at home, nor could they even imagine what you'd do with such a thing at home (other than maybe play games which an Atari console could do better and much cheaper). > nobody had time for obsoleted hardware. Sadly, the same was true in the U.S. although it was great for me. In the late 90s I built out my complete collection of every model of 8-bit micro commonly sold in the U.S. in the 80s and early 90s. All the Ataris, all the Apples (except that Apple 1 kit of course), all the Commodores, all the Radio Shacks, all the Amigas, all the Sinclairs, plus dozens more few remember as well as quite a few from overseas. And I never paid more than $25 for any of them (and many were just given to me for free). My teenage daughter recently looked up a bunch of them on eBay and apparently the collection is probably worth north of $100,000. Of course, I told her it's only worth that if I was interested in selling them - and I'm not. :-)
StefanBatory 2y ago
I tried to see if that book is still available to get, doesn't seem like so, at least in paper :< It's certainly one I'd love to have on desk. I hate how with most history books published here, after a year or two it's impossible to get them due to low print :(
- rasz 2y ago
  There are pdfs floating around. Another good read might be "Playing and copying: social practices of home computer users in Poland during the 1980s" by Patryk Wasiak https://www.academia.edu/13353149/Playing_and_copying_social_practices_of_home_computer_users_in_Poland_during_the_1980s https://www.academia.edu/13353149/Playing_and_copying_social... Cant find a way to simply download it :(
  - pndy 2y ago
    It appears someone uploaded a draft version (at least that's what file says on the inside) on atarionline forum
markwrobel 2y ago
Poland had homegrown computers in the mid-80s. One of the major Polish computer magazines of the time, Bajtek, was published from 85 [1] Casually looking in the magazines published in 1985, during the time of the iron curtain, reveals a lot of fun stuff like games and poke codes, but also more serious stuff. Nothing here suggest that home computers where illegal to have at home. In fact [2] suggest that home computer use in Poland was wide spread. [1] https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290109777_Playing_and_Copying_Social_Practices_of_Home_Computer_Users_in_Poland_during_the_1980s https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290109777_Playing_a...
- rasz 2y ago
  In 1985 CoCom, organization controlling export of military tech and assessing possibility of using specific civilian technologies for military purposes, relaxed rules allowing 8-bit computers to go thru. https://forums.atariage.com/topic/316764-computer-export-to-the-eastern-bloc-under-cocom-embargo/ https://forums.atariage.com/topic/316764-computer-export-to-... Still all computers with a power exceeding 8 bits, software for computer-aided design and manufacturing (CAD/CAM), software related to sound and image processing and artificial intelligence, as well as software used for testing computer technology were still strictly prohibited. There were personal computers in Poland before 1985, all smuggled and illegal. Just like owning Dollars, Deutsche Marks and Pounds was illegal yet there was whole chain of official Pewex shops accepting exclusively those currencies. Poland was weird like that. Klaudiusz Dybowski was chief of Commodore corner in Bajtek. Interview: "Wywiad z Klaudiuszem Dybowskim" by (Atari Online PL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo 50:40 timestamp is where he talks how he got his own Commodore 64 into Poland in late 1984 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo&t=3043 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo&t=3043 >"natomiast Musiałem zostawić sprzęt w urzedzie celnym, bo zglosilem ze przywiozlem komputer, "musi pan to zostawic, teraz musi pan napisac podanie o zezwolenie na posiadanie komputera i wwiezienie go do Polski", i mam to podanie, napisalem je, mam do tego [....] od Zarządu Ruchu Lotniczego i Lotnisk Komunikacyjnych dostalem takie poparcie "bardzo prosimy zeby mozna to bylo wwiesc, komputer bedzie sluzyl do obliczen prodedur itd" i to zanioslem, poczekalem 2 tygodnie i komputer odebralem >"However, I had to leave the equipment at the customs office, because I reported entering with a computer, "you must leave it with us, now you have to write an application for license to import and own a computer", and I still have this application, I wrote it .... from Zarząd Ruchu Lotniczego i Lotnisk Komunikacyjnych (name of company managing Polish airports at the time, his employer) I received such support "requesting to grant permission, computer will be used for the calculations of airport procedures etc." and I took it, I waited 2 weeks and I received the computer So as you see even Bajtek chief had to have a license to own mere C64.

by rasz 2y ago

mrandish 2y ago

Holy &#$^!!! And I thought owning a 4K microcomputer as a suburban California teenager in 1981 was lonely and hard! No one in my family's extended network had a computer at home, nor could they even imagine what you'd do with such a thing at home (other than maybe play games which an Atari console could do better and much cheaper). > nobody had time for obsoleted hardware. Sadly, the same was true in the U.S. although it was great for me. In the late 90s I built out my complete collection of every model of 8-bit micro commonly sold in the U.S. in the 80s and early 90s. All the Ataris, all the Apples (except that Apple 1 kit of course), all the Commodores, all the Radio Shacks, all the Amigas, all the Sinclairs, plus dozens more few remember as well as quite a few from overseas. And I never paid more than $25 for any of them (and many were just given to me for free). My teenage daughter recently looked up a bunch of them on eBay and apparently the collection is probably worth north of $100,000. Of course, I told her it's only worth that if I was interested in selling them - and I'm not. :-)

StefanBatory 2y ago

I tried to see if that book is still available to get, doesn't seem like so, at least in paper :< It's certainly one I'd love to have on desk. I hate how with most history books published here, after a year or two it's impossible to get them due to low print :(

rasz 2y ago
There are pdfs floating around. Another good read might be "Playing and copying: social practices of home computer users in Poland during the 1980s" by Patryk Wasiak https://www.academia.edu/13353149/Playing_and_copying_social_practices_of_home_computer_users_in_Poland_during_the_1980s https://www.academia.edu/13353149/Playing_and_copying_social... Cant find a way to simply download it :(
- pndy 2y ago
  It appears someone uploaded a draft version (at least that's what file says on the inside) on atarionline forum

markwrobel 2y ago

Poland had homegrown computers in the mid-80s. One of the major Polish computer magazines of the time, Bajtek, was published from 85 [1] Casually looking in the magazines published in 1985, during the time of the iron curtain, reveals a lot of fun stuff like games and poke codes, but also more serious stuff. Nothing here suggest that home computers where illegal to have at home. In fact [2] suggest that home computer use in Poland was wide spread. [1] https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine https://archive.org/details/bajtekmagazine [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290109777_Playing_and_Copying_Social_Practices_of_Home_Computer_Users_in_Poland_during_the_1980s https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290109777_Playing_a...

rasz 2y ago
In 1985 CoCom, organization controlling export of military tech and assessing possibility of using specific civilian technologies for military purposes, relaxed rules allowing 8-bit computers to go thru. https://forums.atariage.com/topic/316764-computer-export-to-the-eastern-bloc-under-cocom-embargo/ https://forums.atariage.com/topic/316764-computer-export-to-... Still all computers with a power exceeding 8 bits, software for computer-aided design and manufacturing (CAD/CAM), software related to sound and image processing and artificial intelligence, as well as software used for testing computer technology were still strictly prohibited. There were personal computers in Poland before 1985, all smuggled and illegal. Just like owning Dollars, Deutsche Marks and Pounds was illegal yet there was whole chain of official Pewex shops accepting exclusively those currencies. Poland was weird like that. Klaudiusz Dybowski was chief of Commodore corner in Bajtek. Interview: "Wywiad z Klaudiuszem Dybowskim" by (Atari Online PL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo 50:40 timestamp is where he talks how he got his own Commodore 64 into Poland in late 1984 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo&t=3043 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IC7zYjrSxo&t=3043 >"natomiast Musiałem zostawić sprzęt w urzedzie celnym, bo zglosilem ze przywiozlem komputer, "musi pan to zostawic, teraz musi pan napisac podanie o zezwolenie na posiadanie komputera i wwiezienie go do Polski", i mam to podanie, napisalem je, mam do tego [....] od Zarządu Ruchu Lotniczego i Lotnisk Komunikacyjnych dostalem takie poparcie "bardzo prosimy zeby mozna to bylo wwiesc, komputer bedzie sluzyl do obliczen prodedur itd" i to zanioslem, poczekalem 2 tygodnie i komputer odebralem >"However, I had to leave the equipment at the customs office, because I reported entering with a computer, "you must leave it with us, now you have to write an application for license to import and own a computer", and I still have this application, I wrote it .... from Zarząd Ruchu Lotniczego i Lotnisk Komunikacyjnych (name of company managing Polish airports at the time, his employer) I received such support "requesting to grant permission, computer will be used for the calculations of airport procedures etc." and I took it, I waited 2 weeks and I received the computer So as you see even Bajtek chief had to have a license to own mere C64.