5 ms·

I think we need quantum systems to ever break out of that issue. EDIT: not as to creating an agent that can do anything but creating an agent that more reliabl

I think we need quantum systems to ever break out of that issue. EDIT: not as to creating an agent that can do anything but creating an agent that more reliably represents and respects its reality, making it easier for us to reason and work with seriously.

devmor 1y ago
I don’t believe quantum computers can solve the halting problem, so I don’t think that would actually help. This issue will likely always require a monitor “outside” of the agent.
- randysalami 1y ago
  I think you’re right that they can’t “solve” the halting problem but are more capable at dealing with it than classic ai agents and more physically grounded. Outside monitoring would be required but I’d imagine less so than classical systems and in physically different ways; and to be fair, humans require monitoring too if they should halt or not, haha.
  - devmor 1y ago
    Can you explain why you think this? I’m curious. Humans don’t encounter an infinite loop problem because we are not “process-bound” - we may spend too long on a task but ultimately we are constantly evaluating whether or not we should continue (even if our priorities may not be the same as whoever assigned us a task). The monitoring is built-in, by nature of our cross-task processing.
    - randysalami 1y ago
      100%. We have built-in faculties for stopping and halting. My point wasn’t that humans physically need a monitor to determine when to stop or else suffer an infinite loop; sleep, eating, and death are perfectly effective at that. I was making a bit of a joke in the efficacy of agents being subjective around halting. A classical or quantum agent might go on forever to solve its goal, getting stuck and needing an outside monitor to reset or redefine it. Contrast that to a human agent; given a goal, they might never even try to solve it in the first place! Without outside monitors, systems of human agents may not start when needed or halt when optimal yet we’ve kept it going for thousands of years!
sebastiennight 1y ago
Could you share the logic behind that statement? Because here I'm getting "YouTuber thumbnail vibes" at the idea of solving non-deterministic programming by selecting the one halting outcome out of a multiverse of possibilities
- randysalami 1y ago
  That would be some Dr. Strange stuff. I’m just saying a quantum AI agent would be more grounded when deciding when to stop based on the physical nature of their computation vs. engineering hacks we need for current classical systems that become inherently inaccurate representations of reality. I could be wrong.
  - daxfohl 1y ago
    Quantum computation is no different than classical, except the bit registers have the ability to superpose and entangle, which allows certain specific algorithms like integer factorization to run faster. But conceptually it's still just digital code and an instruction pointer. There's nothing more "physical" about it than classical computing.
    - daxfohl 1y ago
      And it's definitely not "try every possibility in parallel", as is sometimes portrayed by people who don't know better. While quantum computing makes it possible to superpose multiple possibilities, the way quantum mechanics works, you can only measure one (and you have to decide ahead of time which one to measure, i.e. you can't ask the quantum system like "give me the superposition with the highest value"). That's why only a few specific algorithms are aided by quantum computing at all. Integer factorization (or more generally, anything that uses Fourier transforms) is the biggest, where it's exponential speedup, but most others are just quadratic speedup. And even if you could simulate and measure multiple things in parallel, that still wouldn't let you solve the halting problem, which would require simulating and measuring infinite things in parallel. Another way of saying it: everything that can be done on a quantum computer can also be done on a classical computer. It's just that some specific algorithms can be done much faster on a quantum computer, and in the case of integer factorization, a quantum computer could factor numbers larger than would ever be practical on a classical computer. But that's really it. There's nothing magical about them.

devmor 1y ago

I don’t believe quantum computers can solve the halting problem, so I don’t think that would actually help. This issue will likely always require a monitor “outside” of the agent.

randysalami 1y ago
I think you’re right that they can’t “solve” the halting problem but are more capable at dealing with it than classic ai agents and more physically grounded. Outside monitoring would be required but I’d imagine less so than classical systems and in physically different ways; and to be fair, humans require monitoring too if they should halt or not, haha.
- devmor 1y ago
  Can you explain why you think this? I’m curious. Humans don’t encounter an infinite loop problem because we are not “process-bound” - we may spend too long on a task but ultimately we are constantly evaluating whether or not we should continue (even if our priorities may not be the same as whoever assigned us a task). The monitoring is built-in, by nature of our cross-task processing.
  - randysalami 1y ago
    100%. We have built-in faculties for stopping and halting. My point wasn’t that humans physically need a monitor to determine when to stop or else suffer an infinite loop; sleep, eating, and death are perfectly effective at that. I was making a bit of a joke in the efficacy of agents being subjective around halting. A classical or quantum agent might go on forever to solve its goal, getting stuck and needing an outside monitor to reset or redefine it. Contrast that to a human agent; given a goal, they might never even try to solve it in the first place! Without outside monitors, systems of human agents may not start when needed or halt when optimal yet we’ve kept it going for thousands of years!

sebastiennight 1y ago

Could you share the logic behind that statement? Because here I'm getting "YouTuber thumbnail vibes" at the idea of solving non-deterministic programming by selecting the one halting outcome out of a multiverse of possibilities

randysalami 1y ago
That would be some Dr. Strange stuff. I’m just saying a quantum AI agent would be more grounded when deciding when to stop based on the physical nature of their computation vs. engineering hacks we need for current classical systems that become inherently inaccurate representations of reality. I could be wrong.
- daxfohl 1y ago
  Quantum computation is no different than classical, except the bit registers have the ability to superpose and entangle, which allows certain specific algorithms like integer factorization to run faster. But conceptually it's still just digital code and an instruction pointer. There's nothing more "physical" about it than classical computing.
  - daxfohl 1y ago
    And it's definitely not "try every possibility in parallel", as is sometimes portrayed by people who don't know better. While quantum computing makes it possible to superpose multiple possibilities, the way quantum mechanics works, you can only measure one (and you have to decide ahead of time which one to measure, i.e. you can't ask the quantum system like "give me the superposition with the highest value"). That's why only a few specific algorithms are aided by quantum computing at all. Integer factorization (or more generally, anything that uses Fourier transforms) is the biggest, where it's exponential speedup, but most others are just quadratic speedup. And even if you could simulate and measure multiple things in parallel, that still wouldn't let you solve the halting problem, which would require simulating and measuring infinite things in parallel. Another way of saying it: everything that can be done on a quantum computer can also be done on a classical computer. It's just that some specific algorithms can be done much faster on a quantum computer, and in the case of integer factorization, a quantum computer could factor numbers larger than would ever be practical on a classical computer. But that's really it. There's nothing magical about them.