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So a guy closes a multi million dollar sale because the client CEO happens to own the same motorcycle and they went for a ride together? This sounds like an ar

So a guy closes a multi million dollar sale because the client CEO happens to own the same motorcycle and they went for a ride together? This sounds like an argument for turning it all over to AI to me. Both the buying and the selling. Thing is, on a personal level yes, things like motorcycle rides are important. That is what life is made up of, what we live for. But a corporation should exist to provide goods and services to end users and a return to shareholders. This is an optimization problem and not a place for motorcycle rides. In theory (not arguing for or against capitalism) this optimization raises the standard of living for everyone. Selling by personal connection and a motorcycle ride is really a form of cronyism or corruption. The end consumers and shareholders get shafted. This kind of nonsense is especially pronounced and explicit in less well off societies and lowers the general standard of living. So let AI do it. Oh, also give AI the manager who wanted to replace the salespeople with AI's job. That should probably be one of the first jobs to be replaced.

timewizard 2y ago
> Selling by personal connection and a motorcycle ride is really a form of cronyism or corruption. Hardly. It's just "less than ideal." > The end consumers and shareholders get shafted. You're completely assuming that 100% a good deal CANNOT possibly be made on the back of a motorcycle? There's no reason to believe a suboptimal strategy can't arrive at the optimal solution. > This kind of nonsense is especially pronounced and explicit in less well off societies and lowers the general standard of living. This is the way business has been done in the first world for 100 years. You should calibrate your assumptions to the actual data.
- mythrwy 2y ago
  If the deal is made or influenced BECAUSE they both like motorcycles and shared a personal bonding moment (rather than objective business related factors) it is a form of cronyism or corruption. `This is the way business has been done in the first world for 100 years.`. Yes, I am aware cronyism and low level corruption exist in the first world. In other places you probably just give the person an expensive gift or briefcase full of money and save time. But it's not optimal. Point being, this story sounds like an argument in favor of AI to me.
  - timewizard 2y ago
    > If the deal is made or influenced You start your statement with a conditional. So, in your estimation, how often is it true? > But it's not optimal. And your assumption is that it would be cheap to optimize literally every decision we make regardless of it's total impact on the actual outcomes? It's almost never worth the actual costs for the given gains. > this story sounds like an argument in favor of AI to me. It's sounds like an argument for you to achieve more real world experience to me.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - mythrwy 2y ago
      How much "real world experience" do you think I might have? I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I think my point is pretty clear but here it is again just in case. "If high dollar business deals are being made because of personal likes or feelings of the CEO towards a salesperson, AI may just maybe be more optimal".
      - timewizard 2y ago
        > How much "real world experience" do you think I might have? 10 years or so. > I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I disagree with you and am attempting to explain why. > "If high dollar business deals are being made because of personal likes or feelings of the CEO towards a salesperson, AI may just maybe be more optimal". If. What percentage do you think do? How big of a problem do you think this is /actually/? Personal likes and feelings may play in but are you suggesting that's the only metric being used in these circumstances? Like if a company has a product that just won't work and will cause tons of problems you're saying a motorcycle ride could smooth that over? What makes you think AI can optimize this problem that might not even actually exist? It's amazing to me that people think AGI is going to come about while simultaneously doing exactly what you tell it to do. I mean I'm literally trying to picture the world you say you would prefer and I just can't. Worse even if I blur the definitions I actually can't see it being more "efficient."
sophacles 2y ago
> But a corporation should exist to provide goods and services to end users and a return to shareholders. What a naive and utterly incorrect statement. A corporation is a peice of paper that separates ownership from liability. Attached to that peice of paper are some special tax rules, rules about structuring ownership and governance (particularly important when there are multiple owners) and so on. Any notion of how they should be run is just a random person's opinion, unless you happen to have some percentage of ownership - then you get that percentage say in how things are run. Although I will say any sort of mechanistic opinion on corporate interactions is a broken one - fundamentally there are people doing things to fulfill an inter-corporate agreement, and some of those people will find ways to be shady or lazy or otherwise not live up to the agreement. The inter-personal relationships are very important, as they help the people running one corporation gauge how likely the other corporation will live up to it's end of the agreement.
- mythrwy 2y ago
  You talk a lot and don't say very much so I'll pass on engaging. FWIW check your spell checker.

timewizard 2y ago

> Selling by personal connection and a motorcycle ride is really a form of cronyism or corruption. Hardly. It's just "less than ideal." > The end consumers and shareholders get shafted. You're completely assuming that 100% a good deal CANNOT possibly be made on the back of a motorcycle? There's no reason to believe a suboptimal strategy can't arrive at the optimal solution. > This kind of nonsense is especially pronounced and explicit in less well off societies and lowers the general standard of living. This is the way business has been done in the first world for 100 years. You should calibrate your assumptions to the actual data.

mythrwy 2y ago
If the deal is made or influenced BECAUSE they both like motorcycles and shared a personal bonding moment (rather than objective business related factors) it is a form of cronyism or corruption. `This is the way business has been done in the first world for 100 years.`. Yes, I am aware cronyism and low level corruption exist in the first world. In other places you probably just give the person an expensive gift or briefcase full of money and save time. But it's not optimal. Point being, this story sounds like an argument in favor of AI to me.
- timewizard 2y ago
  > If the deal is made or influenced You start your statement with a conditional. So, in your estimation, how often is it true? > But it's not optimal. And your assumption is that it would be cheap to optimize literally every decision we make regardless of it's total impact on the actual outcomes? It's almost never worth the actual costs for the given gains. > this story sounds like an argument in favor of AI to me. It's sounds like an argument for you to achieve more real world experience to me.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - mythrwy 2y ago
    How much "real world experience" do you think I might have? I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I think my point is pretty clear but here it is again just in case. "If high dollar business deals are being made because of personal likes or feelings of the CEO towards a salesperson, AI may just maybe be more optimal".
    - timewizard 2y ago
      > How much "real world experience" do you think I might have? 10 years or so. > I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I disagree with you and am attempting to explain why. > "If high dollar business deals are being made because of personal likes or feelings of the CEO towards a salesperson, AI may just maybe be more optimal". If. What percentage do you think do? How big of a problem do you think this is /actually/? Personal likes and feelings may play in but are you suggesting that's the only metric being used in these circumstances? Like if a company has a product that just won't work and will cause tons of problems you're saying a motorcycle ride could smooth that over? What makes you think AI can optimize this problem that might not even actually exist? It's amazing to me that people think AGI is going to come about while simultaneously doing exactly what you tell it to do. I mean I'm literally trying to picture the world you say you would prefer and I just can't. Worse even if I blur the definitions I actually can't see it being more "efficient."

sophacles 2y ago

> But a corporation should exist to provide goods and services to end users and a return to shareholders. What a naive and utterly incorrect statement. A corporation is a peice of paper that separates ownership from liability. Attached to that peice of paper are some special tax rules, rules about structuring ownership and governance (particularly important when there are multiple owners) and so on. Any notion of how they should be run is just a random person's opinion, unless you happen to have some percentage of ownership - then you get that percentage say in how things are run. Although I will say any sort of mechanistic opinion on corporate interactions is a broken one - fundamentally there are people doing things to fulfill an inter-corporate agreement, and some of those people will find ways to be shady or lazy or otherwise not live up to the agreement. The inter-personal relationships are very important, as they help the people running one corporation gauge how likely the other corporation will live up to it's end of the agreement.

mythrwy 2y ago
You talk a lot and don't say very much so I'll pass on engaging. FWIW check your spell checker.