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you are assuming that people who have them are making conscious choice to have them. I live in india and everyone here has them by default, there is no flowchar

you are assuming that people who have them are making conscious choice to have them. I live in india and everyone here has them by default, there is no flowchart with a diamond. its just something ppl do, like going to the bathroom. in the west answer is that there are more forms of entertainment and fulfillment available now and there is actually a flowchart with diamond in it.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Even in India, there increasing proportions of adults with no children. It happens everywhere where women gain economic and social freedom. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/india/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/ind... https://www.niussp.org/fertility-and-reproduction/increasing-childlessness-driven-by-higher-female-education-in-india/ https://www.niussp.org/fertility-and-reproduction/increasing...
- apwell23 2y ago
  > Even in India, there are more and more who choose to have fewer, and sometimes no children. thank god!! its suffocating over here. curious why do you think women have gained economic and social freedom in india?
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Because they have? Gained doesn’t mean they are completely at par with men. But many have increased their agency relative to women in India in decades past. Many can now get an education, have their own income, live by themselves. Not all, obviously a few hundred million are still probably not close to economic freedom, but more are than before.
    - apwell23 2y ago
      sure but how did you relate that to birthrates. did you correlate any datapoints to make that hypothesis about india? like did you look up who many women voluntarily 'live by themselves' in india ?
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The second link in my post above. Although, if you live in India, you should be able to see women in the cities with jobs that can support themselves. This was not as ubiquitous even just 40 years ago.
        apwell23 2y ago
        yes i live in a major city and i've never seen a woman live by herself. like not even a once. anyways i wasn't contradicting that there are more women working now ( which is not actually true ) . I was asking how you correlated that to birth rates . these two graphs aren't exactly telling the same story https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS?locations=IN https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS?locat... https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/india/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/ind...
trollbridge 2y ago
In China, having large families in the 1950s/1960s was a deliberate policy decision, which is how they ended up being a billion-plus today. (Which was then followed by a one-child policy to try to correct that, since the number of people in China exceeded the amount of arable land to support such people, and once Mao Zedong was out of power, smarter people decided "hmm, it's going to be a big problem if we get to 3 billion people".)
- jtbayly 2y ago
  And now smarter smarter people realize they are facing a major problem from the one child policy.
- themacguffinman 2y ago
  What was the large family policy? I know about the one-child policy, but I don't think people needed a policy to have large families, it used to be the norm back then even outside of China.
  - trollbridge 2y ago
    It was part of the Great Leap Forward. See "Background" under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy In short, Mao Zedong thought that having a big population would lead to a stronger state. Keep in mind this is the same guy who declared war on sparrows as being "capitalist birds".

lotsofpulp 2y ago

Even in India, there increasing proportions of adults with no children. It happens everywhere where women gain economic and social freedom. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/india/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/ind... https://www.niussp.org/fertility-and-reproduction/increasing-childlessness-driven-by-higher-female-education-in-india/ https://www.niussp.org/fertility-and-reproduction/increasing...

apwell23 2y ago
> Even in India, there are more and more who choose to have fewer, and sometimes no children. thank god!! its suffocating over here. curious why do you think women have gained economic and social freedom in india?
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Because they have? Gained doesn’t mean they are completely at par with men. But many have increased their agency relative to women in India in decades past. Many can now get an education, have their own income, live by themselves. Not all, obviously a few hundred million are still probably not close to economic freedom, but more are than before.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    sure but how did you relate that to birthrates. did you correlate any datapoints to make that hypothesis about india? like did you look up who many women voluntarily 'live by themselves' in india ?
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The second link in my post above. Although, if you live in India, you should be able to see women in the cities with jobs that can support themselves. This was not as ubiquitous even just 40 years ago.
      - apwell23 2y ago
        yes i live in a major city and i've never seen a woman live by herself. like not even a once. anyways i wasn't contradicting that there are more women working now ( which is not actually true ) . I was asking how you correlated that to birth rates . these two graphs aren't exactly telling the same story https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS?locations=IN https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS?locat... https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/india/fertility-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ind/ind...

trollbridge 2y ago

In China, having large families in the 1950s/1960s was a deliberate policy decision, which is how they ended up being a billion-plus today. (Which was then followed by a one-child policy to try to correct that, since the number of people in China exceeded the amount of arable land to support such people, and once Mao Zedong was out of power, smarter people decided "hmm, it's going to be a big problem if we get to 3 billion people".)

jtbayly 2y ago
And now smarter smarter people realize they are facing a major problem from the one child policy.
themacguffinman 2y ago
What was the large family policy? I know about the one-child policy, but I don't think people needed a policy to have large families, it used to be the norm back then even outside of China.
- trollbridge 2y ago
  It was part of the Great Leap Forward. See "Background" under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy In short, Mao Zedong thought that having a big population would lead to a stronger state. Keep in mind this is the same guy who declared war on sparrows as being "capitalist birds".