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For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breath

For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breathing?

OsrsNeedsf2P 1y ago
You can get hit by multiple waves in succession while surfing, preventing you from breathing for up to a minute. If you're at 180bpm and not breathing for a minute, you won't be coming back up
timewizard 1y ago
If I need to hold my breath underwater for a longer period of time I'll hyperventilate on the surface just a little before diving. In my experience your lungs don't "burn" as quickly and so you can dive a little longer.
- nikitoci 1y ago
  It’s dangerous, since hyperventilating removes co2 from your blood, and raised co2 level is primary trigger for the urge to breathe reflex. It may feel better to hyperventilate and dive longer but you’re risking suddenly blacking out. I’m a free diver and this is one of the first things you are trained not to do, as well as never to dive alone, for safety reasons.
  - timewizard 1y ago
    Ah the wisdom has changed. This was more often taught when I was younger, which yes, was quite a while ago. The warnings given then were don't go for depth with this method, exhale occasionally while underwater, and manage your breath again immediately on the surface.
    - FrojoS 1y ago
      Interesting. Got a good source? I should definitely look into this again.
      - timewizard 1y ago
        The people around the pool and lake where I grew up? From what I'm reading while searching it seems that "hyperventilate" is probably a bad term for the type of breathing I was shown. We wouldn't do it until we felt a conscious change like dizziness but more like 4 to 8 good deep full and fast breaths before holding, enough to notice, but not so much that it presented the dangers I'm now reading about.
        Azrael3000 1y ago
        That is still considered hyperventilation as a freediver, even though you might not feel any symptoms. The suggestions you gave in your previous post are dangerous and should not be done. Please take a proper course to learn about free diving physiology and safety. Otherwise this sport can get dangerous very quickly.
      - literalAardvark 1y ago
        Any freediving course. You have to breathe normally for an extended time, then dive, then take an extended break, hyperventilation just makes it easier for you to get yourself killed.
      - jboggan 1y ago
        https://www.divessi.com/en/get-certified/freediving https://www.divessi.com/en/get-certified/freediving https://www.padi.com/education/freediving https://www.padi.com/education/freediving https://www.freedivinginstructors.com/ https://www.freedivinginstructors.com/ https://www.aidainternational.org/Education/AIDAFreedivingCourses https://www.aidainternational.org/Education/AIDAFreedivingCo... I've only taken the SSI training but I guarantee none of the different freediving organizations will recommend the type of breathing you are discussing, and in fact a large part of the intro course hammers home that you don't breathe that way.
    - OxO4 1y ago
      Freedivers are also taught not to exhale underwater, because it wastes oxygen and lowers your CO2 level, making it harder to know when you actually have to come back up. Your body can't sense the level of oxygen it has, so freedivers rely on CO2 levels as a proxy, so messing with it is dangerous.
      - nikitoci 1y ago
        And you also becoming much less buoyant and will not surface without actively swimming or pulling the line.
  - FrustratedMonky 1y ago
    So just curious. You do want to have the CO2 levels, so you get the trigger to breath? But to free dive don't you want to stay down longer? So is the method more about dealing with the urges? Mental ways to understand the urge to breath, but be able to block it?
    - aqme28 1y ago
      There are two gases that need to be exchanged when you breathe. You need to get rid of CO2 and you need to get O2. When you hyperventilate, you purge CO2, but don't really change your O2 content. This matters only because CO2 is what triggers your desire to breathe, but O2 is what causes you to actually pass out or not. So what happens is that you might pass out before you realize you need to come up for air.
    - Azrael3000 1y ago
      Correct. You can deal with the urge to breathe with your brain. High co2 has additional benefits for your metabolism, you just need to deal with it. If that sounds interesting take a free diving course its a great way to learn more about this fascinating sport.
FrojoS 1y ago
You can somewhat simulate it yourself. Lie down, do a push up, then jump up to your feet, upright, arms raised (Burpee). Repeat in rapid succession twelve times, then immediately shut your mouth and close your nose with your hand. Hold it. Close your eyes and imagine you are under water and don‘t know how long it will take till you can resurface. You will feel an immediate urge to breath, a very unpleasant feeling in your throat, nose, ears, etc, and an immediate feeling of panic. That feeling is AFAIK caused by heightened CO2 levels [1]. Imagine trying to fight your way to the surface, in a panic, but the turbulence of the wave is too strong and keeps you down. Instead you have to accept the feeling of panic without acting on it, converse your energy while being rag dolled and pounded, trying not to dislocate your joints, keep or regain your sense of orientation, and wait for the moment that the turbulence subsides to the point it is possible to surface again. You have little control over when that moment finally comes. And while seconds start to feel like eternities you might start telling yourself to never go surfing again. As time drags on, your resolve increases, to the point you might act on it once, and if, you finally resurface. [1] I have no expertise but this is what I was told and this source seems to somewhat confirm https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3138667/#:~:text=Inhalation%20of%207.5%25%20CO2,selective%20attention%20to%20environmental%20threat. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3138667/#:~:text=In...
- cbogie 1y ago
  > Lie down, do a push up, then jump up to your feet, upright, arms raised (Burpee). Repeat in rapid succession twelve times, then immediately shut your mouth and close your nose with your hand. Hold it. Close your eyes and imagine you are under water and don‘t know how long it will take till you can resurface. you forget, ‘put a blindfold on and tie your leg to a doberman’s leash then fall down 3-6 flights of stairs’ pretty similar forces and sensory at play, or at least a similar thrashing to big Teahupo’o over a sharp reef.
  - pizzafeelsright 1y ago
    A safe way to get a similar disorienting experience is hold your breath under water while in a tight ball and have someone spin you on every direction and reverse it until you can't stand it and then wait another ten seconds. I recall being swallowed by a wave and while under for only a short period i thought it was annoying not knowing when I'd return to the surface.
zemvpferreira 1y ago
Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you stopped breathing. 30 seconds will feel like death if you're not properly trained. Your very large very stiff board will be tumbling with you and could knock you unconscious or split your head open at any time. My girlfriend got to be a decent surfer (~5 years practice and a former competitive swimmer) but never invested in learning the ocean. In 2018 she went out in a break she didn't know, in conditions above her league. Nothing too big (maybe 5 feet) but strong and relentless. Conclusion: She got sucked into the washing machine during a set and nearly drowned. Had to have the water beaten out of her lungs to restart breathing. Now she has panic attacks just getting into a flat ocean for a swim. The sea is no joke. I encourage everyone to try surfing, it's a great hobby. But less than 10% of it is riding waves.
- Davidzheng 1y ago
  Not the most convincing advertisement
  - endlessvoid94 1y ago
    Just a different type of fun. I find avalanche training to have a similar effect for backcountry. For some it's sobering, for others it's terrifying.
    - testing22321 1y ago
      At the end of my three full day avalanche training the instructor said “now remember, you are now the least qualified people to go into the backcountry. That stuck with me.
      - endlessvoid94 1y ago

For someone with no connection to surfing at all, could you elaborate? Why is surfing special, or different from other sports, in needing to control your breathing?

OsrsNeedsf2P 1y ago

You can get hit by multiple waves in succession while surfing, preventing you from breathing for up to a minute. If you're at 180bpm and not breathing for a minute, you won't be coming back up

timewizard 1y ago

If I need to hold my breath underwater for a longer period of time I'll hyperventilate on the surface just a little before diving. In my experience your lungs don't "burn" as quickly and so you can dive a little longer.

nikitoci 1y ago
It’s dangerous, since hyperventilating removes co2 from your blood, and raised co2 level is primary trigger for the urge to breathe reflex. It may feel better to hyperventilate and dive longer but you’re risking suddenly blacking out. I’m a free diver and this is one of the first things you are trained not to do, as well as never to dive alone, for safety reasons.
- timewizard 1y ago
  Ah the wisdom has changed. This was more often taught when I was younger, which yes, was quite a while ago. The warnings given then were don't go for depth with this method, exhale occasionally while underwater, and manage your breath again immediately on the surface.
  - FrojoS 1y ago
    Interesting. Got a good source? I should definitely look into this again.
    - timewizard 1y ago
      The people around the pool and lake where I grew up? From what I'm reading while searching it seems that "hyperventilate" is probably a bad term for the type of breathing I was shown. We wouldn't do it until we felt a conscious change like dizziness but more like 4 to 8 good deep full and fast breaths before holding, enough to notice, but not so much that it presented the dangers I'm now reading about.
      - Azrael3000 1y ago
        That is still considered hyperventilation as a freediver, even though you might not feel any symptoms. The suggestions you gave in your previous post are dangerous and should not be done. Please take a proper course to learn about free diving physiology and safety. Otherwise this sport can get dangerous very quickly.
    - literalAardvark 1y ago
      Any freediving course. You have to breathe normally for an extended time, then dive, then take an extended break, hyperventilation just makes it easier for you to get yourself killed.
    - jboggan 1y ago
      https://www.divessi.com/en/get-certified/freediving https://www.divessi.com/en/get-certified/freediving https://www.padi.com/education/freediving https://www.padi.com/education/freediving https://www.freedivinginstructors.com/ https://www.freedivinginstructors.com/ https://www.aidainternational.org/Education/AIDAFreedivingCourses https://www.aidainternational.org/Education/AIDAFreedivingCo... I've only taken the SSI training but I guarantee none of the different freediving organizations will recommend the type of breathing you are discussing, and in fact a large part of the intro course hammers home that you don't breathe that way.
  - OxO4 1y ago
    Freedivers are also taught not to exhale underwater, because it wastes oxygen and lowers your CO2 level, making it harder to know when you actually have to come back up. Your body can't sense the level of oxygen it has, so freedivers rely on CO2 levels as a proxy, so messing with it is dangerous.
    - nikitoci 1y ago
      And you also becoming much less buoyant and will not surface without actively swimming or pulling the line.
- FrustratedMonky 1y ago
  So just curious. You do want to have the CO2 levels, so you get the trigger to breath? But to free dive don't you want to stay down longer? So is the method more about dealing with the urges? Mental ways to understand the urge to breath, but be able to block it?
  - aqme28 1y ago
    There are two gases that need to be exchanged when you breathe. You need to get rid of CO2 and you need to get O2. When you hyperventilate, you purge CO2, but don't really change your O2 content. This matters only because CO2 is what triggers your desire to breathe, but O2 is what causes you to actually pass out or not. So what happens is that you might pass out before you realize you need to come up for air.
  - Azrael3000 1y ago
    Correct. You can deal with the urge to breathe with your brain. High co2 has additional benefits for your metabolism, you just need to deal with it. If that sounds interesting take a free diving course its a great way to learn more about this fascinating sport.

FrojoS 1y ago

You can somewhat simulate it yourself. Lie down, do a push up, then jump up to your feet, upright, arms raised (Burpee). Repeat in rapid succession twelve times, then immediately shut your mouth and close your nose with your hand. Hold it. Close your eyes and imagine you are under water and don‘t know how long it will take till you can resurface. You will feel an immediate urge to breath, a very unpleasant feeling in your throat, nose, ears, etc, and an immediate feeling of panic. That feeling is AFAIK caused by heightened CO2 levels [1]. Imagine trying to fight your way to the surface, in a panic, but the turbulence of the wave is too strong and keeps you down. Instead you have to accept the feeling of panic without acting on it, converse your energy while being rag dolled and pounded, trying not to dislocate your joints, keep or regain your sense of orientation, and wait for the moment that the turbulence subsides to the point it is possible to surface again. You have little control over when that moment finally comes. And while seconds start to feel like eternities you might start telling yourself to never go surfing again. As time drags on, your resolve increases, to the point you might act on it once, and if, you finally resurface. [1] I have no expertise but this is what I was told and this source seems to somewhat confirm https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3138667/#:~:text=Inhalation%20of%207.5%25%20CO2,selective%20attention%20to%20environmental%20threat. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3138667/#:~:text=In...

cbogie 1y ago
> Lie down, do a push up, then jump up to your feet, upright, arms raised (Burpee). Repeat in rapid succession twelve times, then immediately shut your mouth and close your nose with your hand. Hold it. Close your eyes and imagine you are under water and don‘t know how long it will take till you can resurface. you forget, ‘put a blindfold on and tie your leg to a doberman’s leash then fall down 3-6 flights of stairs’ pretty similar forces and sensory at play, or at least a similar thrashing to big Teahupo’o over a sharp reef.
- pizzafeelsright 1y ago
  A safe way to get a similar disorienting experience is hold your breath under water while in a tight ball and have someone spin you on every direction and reverse it until you can't stand it and then wait another ten seconds. I recall being swallowed by a wave and while under for only a short period i thought it was annoying not knowing when I'd return to the surface.

zemvpferreira 1y ago

Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you stopped breathing. 30 seconds will feel like death if you're not properly trained. Your very large very stiff board will be tumbling with you and could knock you unconscious or split your head open at any time. My girlfriend got to be a decent surfer (~5 years practice and a former competitive swimmer) but never invested in learning the ocean. In 2018 she went out in a break she didn't know, in conditions above her league. Nothing too big (maybe 5 feet) but strong and relentless. Conclusion: She got sucked into the washing machine during a set and nearly drowned. Had to have the water beaten out of her lungs to restart breathing. Now she has panic attacks just getting into a flat ocean for a swim. The sea is no joke. I encourage everyone to try surfing, it's a great hobby. But less than 10% of it is riding waves.

Davidzheng 1y ago
Not the most convincing advertisement
- endlessvoid94 1y ago
  Just a different type of fun. I find avalanche training to have a similar effect for backcountry. For some it's sobering, for others it's terrifying.
  - testing22321 1y ago
    At the end of my three full day avalanche training the instructor said “now remember, you are now the least qualified people to go into the backcountry. That stuck with me.
    - endlessvoid94 1y ago