3 ms·

That's the opposite experience of my wife who's in tech but also a non programmer. She wanted to ask Gemini to write code to do some basic data analysis things

by kccqzy 2y ago

That's the opposite experience of my wife who's in tech but also a non programmer. She wanted to ask Gemini to write code to do some basic data analysis things in a more automated way than Excel. More than once, Gemini wrote a long bash script where some sed invocations are just plain wrong. More than once I've had to debug Gemini-written bash scripts. As a programmer I knew how bash scripts aren't great for readability so I told my wife to ask Gemini to write Python. It resulted in higher code quality, but still contained bugs that are impossible for a non programmer to fix. Sometimes asking a follow up about the bugs would cause Gemini to fix it, but doing so repeatedly will result in Gemini forgetting what's being asked or simply throwing an internal error. Currently IMO you have to be a programmer to use Gemini to write programs effectively.

sbarre 2y ago
I've found that good prompting isn't just about asking for results but also giving hints/advice/direction on how to go about the work. I suspect that if Gemini is giving you bash scripts it's because you're note giving it enough direction. As you pointed out, telling it to use Python, or giving it more expectations about how to go about the work or how the output should be, will give better results. When I am prompting for technical or data-driven work, I tend to almost walk through what I imagine the process would be, including steps, tools, etc...
xbmcuser 2y ago
I had similar experiences few months back that is why I am saying it is becoming shockingly good the 2.5 is a lot better than the 2.0 version. Another thing I have realized just like google search in the past your query has a lot to do with the results you get. So an example of what you want works at getting better results
- ac29 2y ago
  > I am saying it is becoming shockingly good the 2.5 is a lot better than the 2.0 version Are you specifically talking about 2.5 Flash? It only came out an hour ago, I dont know how you would have enough experience with it already to come to your conclusion. (I am very impressed with 2.5 Pro, but that is a different model that's been available for several weeks now)
  - xbmcuser 2y ago
    I am talking about 2.5 Pro
999900000999 2y ago
Let's hope that's the case for a while. I want to be able to just tell chat GPT or whatever to create a full project for me, but I know the moment it can do that without any human intervention, I won't be able to find a job.
drob518 2y ago
IMO, the only thing that’s consistent about AIs is how inconsistent they are. Sometimes, I ask them to write code and I’m shocked at how well it works. Other times, I feel like I’m trying to explain to a 5-year-old Alzheimer’s patient what I want and it just can’t seem to do the simplest stuff. And it’s the same AI in both cases.
- greyadept 2y ago
  I wouldn’t be surprised if AI tools are frequently throttled in the backend to save on costs, resulting in this type of inconsistency.
SweetSoftPillow 2y ago
It must have something to do with the way your wife is prompting. I've noticed this with my friends too. I usually get working code from Gemini 2.5 Pro on the first try, and with a couple of follow-up prompts, it often improves significantly, while my friends seem to struggle communicating their ideas to the AI and get worse results. Good news: Prompting is a skill you can develop.
- halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
  Or we can just learn to write it ourselves in the same amount of time /shrug
  - viraptor 2y ago
    If you're going to need scripts like that every week - sure. If you need it once a year on average... not likely. There's a huge amount of things we could learn but do them so infrequently that we outsource it to other people.
    - rgoulter 2y ago
      Right. This is one case where I've found writing code with LLMs to be effective. With some unfamiliar tool I don't care about too much (e.g. GitHub Actions YAML or some build script), I just want it to work, & then focus on other things. I can spend time to try and come up with something that works; something that's robust & idiomatic.. but, likely I won't be able to re-use that knowledge before I forget it. With an LLM, I'll likely get just as good a result; or if not, will have a good starting point to go from.
  - SweetSoftPillow 2y ago
    You can't.
    - halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
      Not with that attitude.
Workaccount2 2y ago
There is definitely an art to doing it, but the ability is definitely there even if you don't know the language at all. I have a few programs now that are written in Python (2 by 3.7, one by 2.5) used for business daily, and I can tell you I didn't, and frankly couldn't, check a single line of code. One of them is ~500 LOC, the other two are 2200-2700 LOC.
yakz 2y ago
Ask it to write tests with the code and then ask it to fix the errors from the tests rather than just pointing out bugs. If you have an IDE that supports tool use (Claude Code, Roo Code) it can automate this process.
jiggawatts 2y ago
The AIs like many things out there work like an "evil genie". They'll give you what you asked for. The problem is typically that users ask for the wrong thing. I've noticed beginners make mistakes like using singular terms when they should have used plural ("find the bug" vs "find the bugs"), or they fail to specify their preferred platform, language, or approach. You mentioned your wife is using Excel, which is primarily used on Windows desktops and/or with the Microsoft ecosystem of products such as Power BI, PowerShell, Azure, SQL Server, etc... Yet you mention she got a bash script using sed, both of which are from the Linux / GNU ecosystem. That implies that your wife didn't specify that she wanted a Microsoft-centric solution to her problem! The correct answer here would have likely to have been to use Microsoft Fabric, which is an entire bag of data analysis and reporting tools that has data pipelines, automation, publishing, etc... Or... just use the MashUp engine that's built-in to both Excel and PowerBI, which allows a surprisingly complex set of text, semi-structured, and tabular data processing. It can re-run the import and update graphs and charts with the new data. PS: This is similar to going up to a Node.js programmer with a request. It doesn't matter what it is, they will recommend writing JavaScript to solve the problem. Similarly, a C++ developer will reach for C++ to solve everything they're asked to do. Right now, the AIs strongly prefer Linux, JavaScript, and especially Python for problem solving, because that's the bulk of the open-source code they were trained with.
dmos62 2y ago
Which Gemini was it? I've been using 2.5 Flash all day for programming ClojureScript via roo code and it's been great. Provided I'm using agent orchestration, a memory bank, and having it write docs for code it will work on.

by kccqzy 2y ago

sbarre 2y ago

I've found that good prompting isn't just about asking for results but also giving hints/advice/direction on how to go about the work. I suspect that if Gemini is giving you bash scripts it's because you're note giving it enough direction. As you pointed out, telling it to use Python, or giving it more expectations about how to go about the work or how the output should be, will give better results. When I am prompting for technical or data-driven work, I tend to almost walk through what I imagine the process would be, including steps, tools, etc...

xbmcuser 2y ago

I had similar experiences few months back that is why I am saying it is becoming shockingly good the 2.5 is a lot better than the 2.0 version. Another thing I have realized just like google search in the past your query has a lot to do with the results you get. So an example of what you want works at getting better results

ac29 2y ago
> I am saying it is becoming shockingly good the 2.5 is a lot better than the 2.0 version Are you specifically talking about 2.5 Flash? It only came out an hour ago, I dont know how you would have enough experience with it already to come to your conclusion. (I am very impressed with 2.5 Pro, but that is a different model that's been available for several weeks now)
- xbmcuser 2y ago
  I am talking about 2.5 Pro

999900000999 2y ago

Let's hope that's the case for a while. I want to be able to just tell chat GPT or whatever to create a full project for me, but I know the moment it can do that without any human intervention, I won't be able to find a job.

drob518 2y ago

IMO, the only thing that’s consistent about AIs is how inconsistent they are. Sometimes, I ask them to write code and I’m shocked at how well it works. Other times, I feel like I’m trying to explain to a 5-year-old Alzheimer’s patient what I want and it just can’t seem to do the simplest stuff. And it’s the same AI in both cases.

greyadept 2y ago
I wouldn’t be surprised if AI tools are frequently throttled in the backend to save on costs, resulting in this type of inconsistency.

SweetSoftPillow 2y ago

It must have something to do with the way your wife is prompting. I've noticed this with my friends too. I usually get working code from Gemini 2.5 Pro on the first try, and with a couple of follow-up prompts, it often improves significantly, while my friends seem to struggle communicating their ideas to the AI and get worse results. Good news: Prompting is a skill you can develop.

halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
Or we can just learn to write it ourselves in the same amount of time /shrug
- viraptor 2y ago
  If you're going to need scripts like that every week - sure. If you need it once a year on average... not likely. There's a huge amount of things we could learn but do them so infrequently that we outsource it to other people.
  - rgoulter 2y ago
    Right. This is one case where I've found writing code with LLMs to be effective. With some unfamiliar tool I don't care about too much (e.g. GitHub Actions YAML or some build script), I just want it to work, & then focus on other things. I can spend time to try and come up with something that works; something that's robust & idiomatic.. but, likely I won't be able to re-use that knowledge before I forget it. With an LLM, I'll likely get just as good a result; or if not, will have a good starting point to go from.
- SweetSoftPillow 2y ago
  You can't.
  - halfmatthalfcat 2y ago
    Not with that attitude.

Workaccount2 2y ago

There is definitely an art to doing it, but the ability is definitely there even if you don't know the language at all. I have a few programs now that are written in Python (2 by 3.7, one by 2.5) used for business daily, and I can tell you I didn't, and frankly couldn't, check a single line of code. One of them is ~500 LOC, the other two are 2200-2700 LOC.

yakz 2y ago

Ask it to write tests with the code and then ask it to fix the errors from the tests rather than just pointing out bugs. If you have an IDE that supports tool use (Claude Code, Roo Code) it can automate this process.

jiggawatts 2y ago

The AIs like many things out there work like an "evil genie". They'll give you what you asked for. The problem is typically that users ask for the wrong thing. I've noticed beginners make mistakes like using singular terms when they should have used plural ("find the bug" vs "find the bugs"), or they fail to specify their preferred platform, language, or approach. You mentioned your wife is using Excel, which is primarily used on Windows desktops and/or with the Microsoft ecosystem of products such as Power BI, PowerShell, Azure, SQL Server, etc... Yet you mention she got a bash script using sed, both of which are from the Linux / GNU ecosystem. That implies that your wife didn't specify that she wanted a Microsoft-centric solution to her problem! The correct answer here would have likely to have been to use Microsoft Fabric, which is an entire bag of data analysis and reporting tools that has data pipelines, automation, publishing, etc... Or... just use the MashUp engine that's built-in to both Excel and PowerBI, which allows a surprisingly complex set of text, semi-structured, and tabular data processing. It can re-run the import and update graphs and charts with the new data. PS: This is similar to going up to a Node.js programmer with a request. It doesn't matter what it is, they will recommend writing JavaScript to solve the problem. Similarly, a C++ developer will reach for C++ to solve everything they're asked to do. Right now, the AIs strongly prefer Linux, JavaScript, and especially Python for problem solving, because that's the bulk of the open-source code they were trained with.

dmos62 2y ago

Which Gemini was it? I've been using 2.5 Flash all day for programming ClojureScript via roo code and it's been great. Provided I'm using agent orchestration, a memory bank, and having it write docs for code it will work on.