9 ms·

I wonder why ICE asked to hold him. The article does not mention.

by sergiotapia 2y ago

sundaeofshock 2y ago
Why does it matter? He is a US citizen and ICE should be told to fuck right off.
- ahdanggit 2y ago
  I am also wondering the same thing, how can they even hold him? He was charged with a DUI (not even an ICE matter) other than that his crime seems to be that he doesn't speak English and lived in Mexico most of his life? Also... shouldn't you be assumed to be a citizen (e.g. innocent) unless proven otherwise? Have we turned in to Nazi Germany (Papers please...) Did they pass an executive order voiding birth right citizenship and I missed it? I know they were trying to...
runako 2y ago
It does not matter. ICE does not have any jurisdiction at all over US citizens who are not engaged in crossing international borders. Let me say that again another way: ICE cannot simply do whatever it wants to whoever it wants. This is akin to giving the Department of Education comprehensive arrest powers related to pickleball games anywhere in the country.
- HenryBemis 2y ago
  Maybe someone should pass a law that limits ICE's range to "not more than 5km/miles from the nearest external border". In which case they operate as border guard and not as "let's go downtown and get us some Pakis/Venezuelans/Italians/etc." (but who's gonna pass this law?)
  - runako 2y ago
    Yes, but also many of our major cities are 5km from an external border (coastal cities). ICE needs to be reined in, full stop.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - chias 2y ago
      You'd probably also need to count international airports
  - pizza 2y ago
    Worth saying that there is a similar law for CBP to be able to conduct warrantless searches anywhere within 100 miles of the border.
_ea1k 2y ago
Yeah, there's a lot of missing context here. What is next? Presumably the party having jurisdiction has a process here?
- kennywinker 2y ago
  Process seems to be: 1. check for existence of any tattoos, 2. claim they are "gang related" 3. ship to el salvador
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    0. Brown skin?
kemayo 2y ago
ICE is known for being fuzzy with its holds. They issue them over sketchy name collisions and inaccurate or outdated charges in their databases. It's one of the factors in why a bunch of cities don't cooperate with ICE -- they hate getting sued over it when it happens. E.g. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-ice-detained-american-sues-20171219-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-ice-detain... from back in 2017. That is to say, this is mostly a story about ICE doing what ICE has always done, getting attention because of other prominent cases. Deservedly! Because ICE is a pretty awful institution in practice.
justin66 2y ago
> The article does not mention. It's literally the first sentence of the article: held in the Leon County Jail Thursday, charged with illegally entering Florida as an “unauthorized alien”
- lostmsu 2y ago
  No, you are reading it wrong. That's what he was initially brought for, but he was held later by a request from ICE, and the reason for that request the article omits.
  - newhotelowner 2y ago
    I think florida recently passed the law thata why
Ajedi32 2y ago
Yeah very little information here. Looks like he got charged with an immigration-related crime, ruled not guilty by state court because he's a citizen, but they can't actually release him yet because ICE got involved so now it's a federal matter and he also has to prove he's a citizen to the feds too? Kinda ridiculous that he was charged in the first place. I'm not sure what the basis for that was, maybe one of the people he was in the car with was in the country illegally and they just carelessly charged everyone without checking? I expect it'll be cleared up quickly and he'll be released in another day or two, just as it was with the drunk driving case in Georgia he was previously arrested for.
lostmsu 2y ago
[flagged]
- senderista 2y ago
  So habeas corpus just doesn’t apply to ICE?
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    What relationship this question has to my comment?
    - senderista 2y ago
      Any US citizen detained by ICE has the right to file a habeas petition for unlawful detention.
      - int_19h 2y ago
        Anyone detained by any government agency has the right to file a habeas petition. It's a very fundamental right and applies to non-citizens as well. The difference, insofar as courts have decided to date, is that citizens have this right even when they are detained outside of US borders, while non-citizens only have it when detained within those borders (and generally wherever the US govt has "ultimate sovereignty", e.g. Gitmo).
      - lostmsu 2y ago
        Was he denied that right?

I wonder why ICE asked to hold him. The article does not mention.

sundaeofshock 2y ago

Why does it matter? He is a US citizen and ICE should be told to fuck right off.

ahdanggit 2y ago
I am also wondering the same thing, how can they even hold him? He was charged with a DUI (not even an ICE matter) other than that his crime seems to be that he doesn't speak English and lived in Mexico most of his life? Also... shouldn't you be assumed to be a citizen (e.g. innocent) unless proven otherwise? Have we turned in to Nazi Germany (Papers please...) Did they pass an executive order voiding birth right citizenship and I missed it? I know they were trying to...

runako 2y ago

It does not matter. ICE does not have any jurisdiction at all over US citizens who are not engaged in crossing international borders. Let me say that again another way: ICE cannot simply do whatever it wants to whoever it wants. This is akin to giving the Department of Education comprehensive arrest powers related to pickleball games anywhere in the country.

HenryBemis 2y ago
Maybe someone should pass a law that limits ICE's range to "not more than 5km/miles from the nearest external border". In which case they operate as border guard and not as "let's go downtown and get us some Pakis/Venezuelans/Italians/etc." (but who's gonna pass this law?)
- runako 2y ago
  Yes, but also many of our major cities are 5km from an external border (coastal cities). ICE needs to be reined in, full stop.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - chias 2y ago
    You'd probably also need to count international airports
- pizza 2y ago
  Worth saying that there is a similar law for CBP to be able to conduct warrantless searches anywhere within 100 miles of the border.

_ea1k 2y ago

Yeah, there's a lot of missing context here. What is next? Presumably the party having jurisdiction has a process here?

kennywinker 2y ago
Process seems to be: 1. check for existence of any tattoos, 2. claim they are "gang related" 3. ship to el salvador
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  0. Brown skin?

kemayo 2y ago

ICE is known for being fuzzy with its holds. They issue them over sketchy name collisions and inaccurate or outdated charges in their databases. It's one of the factors in why a bunch of cities don't cooperate with ICE -- they hate getting sued over it when it happens. E.g. https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-ice-detained-american-sues-20171219-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-ice-detain... from back in 2017. That is to say, this is mostly a story about ICE doing what ICE has always done, getting attention because of other prominent cases. Deservedly! Because ICE is a pretty awful institution in practice.

justin66 2y ago

> The article does not mention. It's literally the first sentence of the article: held in the Leon County Jail Thursday, charged with illegally entering Florida as an “unauthorized alien”

lostmsu 2y ago
No, you are reading it wrong. That's what he was initially brought for, but he was held later by a request from ICE, and the reason for that request the article omits.
- newhotelowner 2y ago
  I think florida recently passed the law thata why

Ajedi32 2y ago

Yeah very little information here. Looks like he got charged with an immigration-related crime, ruled not guilty by state court because he's a citizen, but they can't actually release him yet because ICE got involved so now it's a federal matter and he also has to prove he's a citizen to the feds too? Kinda ridiculous that he was charged in the first place. I'm not sure what the basis for that was, maybe one of the people he was in the car with was in the country illegally and they just carelessly charged everyone without checking? I expect it'll be cleared up quickly and he'll be released in another day or two, just as it was with the drunk driving case in Georgia he was previously arrested for.

lostmsu 2y ago

[flagged]

senderista 2y ago
So habeas corpus just doesn’t apply to ICE?
- lostmsu 2y ago
  What relationship this question has to my comment?
  - senderista 2y ago
    Any US citizen detained by ICE has the right to file a habeas petition for unlawful detention.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      Anyone detained by any government agency has the right to file a habeas petition. It's a very fundamental right and applies to non-citizens as well. The difference, insofar as courts have decided to date, is that citizens have this right even when they are detained outside of US borders, while non-citizens only have it when detained within those borders (and generally wherever the US govt has "ultimate sovereignty", e.g. Gitmo).
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      Was he denied that right?