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No but it would stop a single company from accumulating so much power. How you can argue such things are democratic are beyond me. There is nothing democratic

No but it would stop a single company from accumulating so much power. How you can argue such things are democratic are beyond me. There is nothing democratic about trillion dollar corporations that can ruin your business for refusing to play their game.

whoknowsidont 2y ago
How can Google ruin your business?
- Henchman21 2y ago
  By refusing to send you traffic that you rely upon for revenue? For reasons that likely wouldn’t even come to light in a lawsuit?
- afavour 2y ago
  I've seen countless examples, e.g. a business that depends on online advertising gets its account suspended for incorrect reasons and there is literally no-one to reach at Google to get unsuspended.
  - whoknowsidont 2y ago
    Do you have a documented example of this?
    - nickff 2y ago
      Not parent, but there are many examples of this; they’re often (but not always) unsympathetic cases due to the business model of the business which has been destroyed.
    - lupka 2y ago
      This is happening to me right now. I have run a site for 14 years that gets most of its traffic during the current two week stretch (it's related to NBA playoffs). All of a sudden, Adsense revenue has gone to basically zero. $90 of earnings from Sunday has even disappeared. There is no way to contact a real person at Google. You can just post in their dumb little forum and someone with no authority who doesn't even work there will reply to you with the same pointless info from their FAQ. If things go the way they have been, it seems like roughly $2k in revenue that's been pretty consistent for the last decade is going to be basically zero this year and there's nothing I can do about it. Thankfully, this is just a side project and I'll be fine, but its not hard to see how they could screw someone over who relied on it.
      - whoknowsidont 2y ago
        You could just go to a different ad network? At that amount of money you're not on the ad exchange. I don't see how this is ruining your business. A vendor is not playing well with you, just go to another one?
        lupka 2y ago
        The key factor is the timing. During the primary week where this product generates income, Google completely screwed me over with no warning and no answers about what's going on. I am of course looking into alternatives, but that takes time, and 3 days from now it'll be too late.
        whoknowsidont 2y ago
        You have no contract with Google though. You're literally siphoning on what is a really low-barrier, dare I say free service. They didn't screw you over. You chose to use them. You didn't pay them, they're paying you. If you don't like that arrangement, feel free to join a partner agency that can buy and sell ads for you on the ad exchange or go to a different ad network. Then, if they do something you don't like, you actually have very real power to compel them to do something. Remember, you get what you pay for.
        lupka 2y ago
        Your contention is that someone can't screw you over unless you're paying them?
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    If you made your business become completely dependent on a third party, you were already a failure and shouldn't have a business. Being a successful businessman is not a right. It's competition.
    - CPLX 2y ago
      The reason monopolies are illegal is precisely because they force people to be completely dependent on a third party. Is a farmer "a failure who shouldn't have a business" if some asshole buys up every single railroad, port, and truck in the country he lives in?
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        No, but if he makes himself for example completely dependent on Monsanto, he shouldn't have a business, because he's in practice an employee with all the financial responsibilities of a business and none of the benefits of having a business. And none of the benefits of being an employee either. If your business model is to make yourself completely dependent on a single third party, then you shouldn't have a business.
        CPLX 2y ago
        The only way it would be possible for him to become completely dependent on Monsanto is if that company is allowed to monopolize the product categories it sells.
    - JohnMakin 2y ago
      Wow, all those fortune 500 companies whose infra entirely relies on 3rd party cloud infrastructure really must be in for a rude awakening. You should update them with your cunning analysis and inform them they are failures.
      - efsavage 2y ago
        The tone here isn't great but parent is more correct than not. This is why large companies don't use freebie services. They vet companies and partners, sign enterprise deals with support, SLAs, penalties, insurance, even bonds in some cases. It costs more, and it's hardly fun for most people, but it's all part of mitigating those risks. And it's not just tech, you see the same thing in non-tech industries like manufacturing.
fallingknife 2y ago
Of course it's not democratic, but what business ever is? There is no recognized right to access the advertising market on terms that you like.
- azemetre 2y ago
  Yes there is no right to access an advertising market for Google, luckily the government agrees they are an illegal monopoly. Hopefully the ramifications are massive and company breaking.
  - fallingknife 2y ago
    If that happens this will do nothing for you. You will go through some other company where you can't talk to a human.
    - azemetre 2y ago
      That’s fine. As long as Google is broken up. I doubt your scenario will happen either, we all saw the hundreds of billions in investor value that occurred when AT&T was broken up. Breaking up Google will help everyone everywhere.

whoknowsidont 2y ago

How can Google ruin your business?

Henchman21 2y ago
By refusing to send you traffic that you rely upon for revenue? For reasons that likely wouldn’t even come to light in a lawsuit?
afavour 2y ago
I've seen countless examples, e.g. a business that depends on online advertising gets its account suspended for incorrect reasons and there is literally no-one to reach at Google to get unsuspended.
- whoknowsidont 2y ago
  Do you have a documented example of this?
  - nickff 2y ago
    Not parent, but there are many examples of this; they’re often (but not always) unsympathetic cases due to the business model of the business which has been destroyed.
  - lupka 2y ago
    This is happening to me right now. I have run a site for 14 years that gets most of its traffic during the current two week stretch (it's related to NBA playoffs). All of a sudden, Adsense revenue has gone to basically zero. $90 of earnings from Sunday has even disappeared. There is no way to contact a real person at Google. You can just post in their dumb little forum and someone with no authority who doesn't even work there will reply to you with the same pointless info from their FAQ. If things go the way they have been, it seems like roughly $2k in revenue that's been pretty consistent for the last decade is going to be basically zero this year and there's nothing I can do about it. Thankfully, this is just a side project and I'll be fine, but its not hard to see how they could screw someone over who relied on it.
    - whoknowsidont 2y ago
      You could just go to a different ad network? At that amount of money you're not on the ad exchange. I don't see how this is ruining your business. A vendor is not playing well with you, just go to another one?
      - lupka 2y ago
        The key factor is the timing. During the primary week where this product generates income, Google completely screwed me over with no warning and no answers about what's going on. I am of course looking into alternatives, but that takes time, and 3 days from now it'll be too late.
        whoknowsidont 2y ago
        You have no contract with Google though. You're literally siphoning on what is a really low-barrier, dare I say free service. They didn't screw you over. You chose to use them. You didn't pay them, they're paying you. If you don't like that arrangement, feel free to join a partner agency that can buy and sell ads for you on the ad exchange or go to a different ad network. Then, if they do something you don't like, you actually have very real power to compel them to do something. Remember, you get what you pay for.
        lupka 2y ago
        Your contention is that someone can't screw you over unless you're paying them?
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  If you made your business become completely dependent on a third party, you were already a failure and shouldn't have a business. Being a successful businessman is not a right. It's competition.
  - CPLX 2y ago
    The reason monopolies are illegal is precisely because they force people to be completely dependent on a third party. Is a farmer "a failure who shouldn't have a business" if some asshole buys up every single railroad, port, and truck in the country he lives in?
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      No, but if he makes himself for example completely dependent on Monsanto, he shouldn't have a business, because he's in practice an employee with all the financial responsibilities of a business and none of the benefits of having a business. And none of the benefits of being an employee either. If your business model is to make yourself completely dependent on a single third party, then you shouldn't have a business.
      - CPLX 2y ago
        The only way it would be possible for him to become completely dependent on Monsanto is if that company is allowed to monopolize the product categories it sells.
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    Wow, all those fortune 500 companies whose infra entirely relies on 3rd party cloud infrastructure really must be in for a rude awakening. You should update them with your cunning analysis and inform them they are failures.
    - efsavage 2y ago
      The tone here isn't great but parent is more correct than not. This is why large companies don't use freebie services. They vet companies and partners, sign enterprise deals with support, SLAs, penalties, insurance, even bonds in some cases. It costs more, and it's hardly fun for most people, but it's all part of mitigating those risks. And it's not just tech, you see the same thing in non-tech industries like manufacturing.

fallingknife 2y ago

Of course it's not democratic, but what business ever is? There is no recognized right to access the advertising market on terms that you like.

azemetre 2y ago
Yes there is no right to access an advertising market for Google, luckily the government agrees they are an illegal monopoly. Hopefully the ramifications are massive and company breaking.
- fallingknife 2y ago
  If that happens this will do nothing for you. You will go through some other company where you can't talk to a human.
  - azemetre 2y ago
    That’s fine. As long as Google is broken up. I doubt your scenario will happen either, we all saw the hundreds of billions in investor value that occurred when AT&T was broken up. Breaking up Google will help everyone everywhere.