3 ms·

I can't remember exactly what I was listening to, maybe some kind of NPR podcast. But the doctor was mentioning that none of the influencers influencing young

I can't remember exactly what I was listening to, maybe some kind of NPR podcast. But the doctor was mentioning that none of the influencers influencing young people to try T and Steroids (which is rampant right now) are ever mentioning that you are on a ticking clock to infertility as soon as you start this stuff. Some people can regain their fertility but it might take years, and some people are going to be permanently infertile even staying on HRT. Plenty of those "alpha male" guys on social media are shooting blanks.

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joncrane 1y ago
This is interesting because about 20 or so years ago when I was super into bodybuilding, you couldn't talk about a "cycle" on a bodybuilding forum without talking about a "post cycle protocol." I know that's different than permanent TRT but I feel like you couldn't get very far researching that stuff without understanding that you natural test production (and sperm production) would get "shut down" as soon as you started adding exogenous androgens.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  Yeah, it's well known that steroids shut you down. The problem with the broscience is that the PCT is talked about like it reverses everything like an antidote, but long-term bodybuilders often end up on TRT because eventually they can't get back to baseline.
  - gr3ml1n 1y ago
    That isn't true. Dedicated bodybuilders, starting more commonly ~5 years ago, decided that PCT wasn't worth it. Instead of typical 16-20 week cycles followed by 4-6 weeks of PCT, they adjust the dose between supraphysiological and (generally) top-of-normal, i.e.: blast and cruise. It's not because they couldn't recover, it's because they don't want to or see the point.
Aurornis 1y ago
Testicular atrophy and HPT axis suppression is a thoroughly documented side effect of TRT and steroids. Even beginner bodybuilders know that taking steroids will crush their natural testosterone production. They can kind of bring it back by taking short courses and using certain medications after the cycle, but most discover that some permanent damage is being done with each cycle. There are two problems with framing it as an infertility problem: 1 - It reduces fertility but many users retain some fertility. The bigger problem for most is that natural testosterone production won't come back to the same level if they ever discontinue, so they're on it for life. Managing testosterone injections every week or multiple times per week for the rest of your life is doable but a pain, especially if you have to travel or you're not the best at keeping up with prescriptions. There are also ups and downs and side effects that come from artificial testosterone dosing. Many people are surprised to discover that after the first year or two they don't feel "great" any more and it's just back to where they started, but with a lifetime dependency now. Others get serious side effects like Gynecomastia (breast growth in men, possibly requiring surgery) or secondary hormonal alterations that negatively impact mood, cognition, or libido. 2 - Many young men in their 20s or even teens see infertility as a positive rather than a negative. It's very common for people of this age to think they've made up their mind for life, but they have yet to even have a serious relationship or even know any peers with kids. People who work in fertility fields are starting to see a lot of men who went into TRT or steroids when they were young because they thought the consequences would never be a problem for them. > Plenty of those "alpha male" guys on social media are shooting blanks. Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are. It's crazy to me to see this shift happening. TRT clinics that advertise on the radio, TikTok, and everywhere else will entice people to come in for "free tests" but the trick is that it doesn't matter what your numbers come back as, they'll always find a way to prescribe you TRT because it's easy recurring revenue for them with lifelong dependence attached.
- jjani 1y ago
  > Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are. Wouldn't surprise me at all if most of that was coping behavior.
loeg 1y ago
The big, big problem is heart disease. Infertility might be bad for your family planning, but the high blood pressure will kill you.
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joncrane 1y ago

This is interesting because about 20 or so years ago when I was super into bodybuilding, you couldn't talk about a "cycle" on a bodybuilding forum without talking about a "post cycle protocol." I know that's different than permanent TRT but I feel like you couldn't get very far researching that stuff without understanding that you natural test production (and sperm production) would get "shut down" as soon as you started adding exogenous androgens.

Aurornis 1y ago
Yeah, it's well known that steroids shut you down. The problem with the broscience is that the PCT is talked about like it reverses everything like an antidote, but long-term bodybuilders often end up on TRT because eventually they can't get back to baseline.
- gr3ml1n 1y ago
  That isn't true. Dedicated bodybuilders, starting more commonly ~5 years ago, decided that PCT wasn't worth it. Instead of typical 16-20 week cycles followed by 4-6 weeks of PCT, they adjust the dose between supraphysiological and (generally) top-of-normal, i.e.: blast and cruise. It's not because they couldn't recover, it's because they don't want to or see the point.

Aurornis 1y ago

Testicular atrophy and HPT axis suppression is a thoroughly documented side effect of TRT and steroids. Even beginner bodybuilders know that taking steroids will crush their natural testosterone production. They can kind of bring it back by taking short courses and using certain medications after the cycle, but most discover that some permanent damage is being done with each cycle. There are two problems with framing it as an infertility problem: 1 - It reduces fertility but many users retain some fertility. The bigger problem for most is that natural testosterone production won't come back to the same level if they ever discontinue, so they're on it for life. Managing testosterone injections every week or multiple times per week for the rest of your life is doable but a pain, especially if you have to travel or you're not the best at keeping up with prescriptions. There are also ups and downs and side effects that come from artificial testosterone dosing. Many people are surprised to discover that after the first year or two they don't feel "great" any more and it's just back to where they started, but with a lifetime dependency now. Others get serious side effects like Gynecomastia (breast growth in men, possibly requiring surgery) or secondary hormonal alterations that negatively impact mood, cognition, or libido. 2 - Many young men in their 20s or even teens see infertility as a positive rather than a negative. It's very common for people of this age to think they've made up their mind for life, but they have yet to even have a serious relationship or even know any peers with kids. People who work in fertility fields are starting to see a lot of men who went into TRT or steroids when they were young because they thought the consequences would never be a problem for them. > Plenty of those "alpha male" guys on social media are shooting blanks. Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are. It's crazy to me to see this shift happening. TRT clinics that advertise on the radio, TikTok, and everywhere else will entice people to come in for "free tests" but the trick is that it doesn't matter what your numbers come back as, they'll always find a way to prescribe you TRT because it's easy recurring revenue for them with lifelong dependence attached.

jjani 1y ago
> Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are. Wouldn't surprise me at all if most of that was coping behavior.

loeg 1y ago

The big, big problem is heart disease. Infertility might be bad for your family planning, but the high blood pressure will kill you.

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