4 ms·

I don't think it's reasonable to ding them for the second part. She has to actually fund herself somehow, and doing it by promoting products that actually meet

I don't think it's reasonable to ding them for the second part. She has to actually fund herself somehow, and doing it by promoting products that actually meet the standard is by far the least offensive way of doing it. Watching this comment tick down with more and more downvotes from people who get paid cushy software engineer salaries is absolutely comical.

im3w1l 2y ago
It's not that it's wrong, but when someone stands to make money the assumptions we make about their motives change. If their whole business relies on advocating a fringe position I will not start with an assumption of good faith, or that they are just misinformed.
- Blackthorn 2y ago
  Given that money is required to both live and do this research, I'm curious to hear what the alternative is.
  - pogue 2y ago
    I don't know the economics of it, but they could run ads on their site, become a non profit & only accept donations, etc etc. This is slightly unrelated, but I remember in the 2000s, there was a vendor of protein powders who started testing his and other vendors protein powders to see if their labels were true & they weren't protein spiking (adding cheaper collagen instead of whey lying on the labels, essentially). He almost immediately got sued from several large mfgs and had to shut down. So, for this group, and the fact that they're ignoring cease & desist letters from the toothpaste mfgs they're testing puts them in HUGE legal risk, I suspect, and would not be the least bit surprised if all the funds they're collecting are going to end up in lawyers pockets.
    - Blackthorn 2y ago
      > but they could run ads on their site My dude, what do you think those affiliate links are?
      - pogue 2y ago
        I mean like Google Adsense or any other type of advertising that do not use affiliate links for the specific products they mention.
  - im3w1l 2y ago
    As I said it's not wrong itself. They just have a steeper hill to climb in terms of evidence for their position.
pogue 2y ago
You could make either side of the argument, tbh. If you wanted a completely independent and unbiased testing, you wouldn't want the group to sell/promote the products they test. It definitely presents potential conflicts of interest. But, I went on Consumer Reports recently looking for a good smoke detector and saw they are now using affiliate links for the products they test as well, and I consider them well established and above board. So, everyone will have to make their own ethical judgment on how to take the results.
- Blackthorn 2y ago
  Sure, you would definitely want that in an ideal world, but that isn't the world we live in. An ideal world would have the government funding this research, but that's laughable now. So with the reality we have to live in, this research has to get funds somehow.
- tmerc 2y ago
  Consumer Reports was not honest about their testing for the Suzuki Samurai back in the late 80s. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-reports-hopes-you-forgot-about/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-report... Summary, the samurai passed all their standard rollover tests and got great remarks from the test drivers about its handling and maneuverability. So they changed the test specifically to make it fail, and kept trying until it failed. Then they presented that failure as happening under normal conditions, singled out the samurai by name, and said it easily rolled in cornering despite their own testing showing it was actually quite difficult to make it roll. As a result, Suzuki and Isuzu both left the usdm. Today, the Suzuki Jimny is one of the most popular SUVs in the world and America can't have it because consumer reports lied deliberately to American consumers.

im3w1l 2y ago

It's not that it's wrong, but when someone stands to make money the assumptions we make about their motives change. If their whole business relies on advocating a fringe position I will not start with an assumption of good faith, or that they are just misinformed.

Blackthorn 2y ago
Given that money is required to both live and do this research, I'm curious to hear what the alternative is.
- pogue 2y ago
  I don't know the economics of it, but they could run ads on their site, become a non profit & only accept donations, etc etc. This is slightly unrelated, but I remember in the 2000s, there was a vendor of protein powders who started testing his and other vendors protein powders to see if their labels were true & they weren't protein spiking (adding cheaper collagen instead of whey lying on the labels, essentially). He almost immediately got sued from several large mfgs and had to shut down. So, for this group, and the fact that they're ignoring cease & desist letters from the toothpaste mfgs they're testing puts them in HUGE legal risk, I suspect, and would not be the least bit surprised if all the funds they're collecting are going to end up in lawyers pockets.
  - Blackthorn 2y ago
    > but they could run ads on their site My dude, what do you think those affiliate links are?
    - pogue 2y ago
      I mean like Google Adsense or any other type of advertising that do not use affiliate links for the specific products they mention.
- im3w1l 2y ago
  As I said it's not wrong itself. They just have a steeper hill to climb in terms of evidence for their position.

pogue 2y ago

You could make either side of the argument, tbh. If you wanted a completely independent and unbiased testing, you wouldn't want the group to sell/promote the products they test. It definitely presents potential conflicts of interest. But, I went on Consumer Reports recently looking for a good smoke detector and saw they are now using affiliate links for the products they test as well, and I consider them well established and above board. So, everyone will have to make their own ethical judgment on how to take the results.

Blackthorn 2y ago
Sure, you would definitely want that in an ideal world, but that isn't the world we live in. An ideal world would have the government funding this research, but that's laughable now. So with the reality we have to live in, this research has to get funds somehow.
tmerc 2y ago
Consumer Reports was not honest about their testing for the Suzuki Samurai back in the late 80s. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-reports-hopes-you-forgot-about/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-90s-scandal-consumer-report... Summary, the samurai passed all their standard rollover tests and got great remarks from the test drivers about its handling and maneuverability. So they changed the test specifically to make it fail, and kept trying until it failed. Then they presented that failure as happening under normal conditions, singled out the samurai by name, and said it easily rolled in cornering despite their own testing showing it was actually quite difficult to make it roll. As a result, Suzuki and Isuzu both left the usdm. Today, the Suzuki Jimny is one of the most popular SUVs in the world and America can't have it because consumer reports lied deliberately to American consumers.