3 ms·

The mark of an advanced shell scripter is knowing not to do advanced shell scripting. (This statement primarily applies to existing stringly-typed scripting la

The mark of an advanced shell scripter is knowing not to do advanced shell scripting. (This statement primarily applies to existing stringly-typed scripting languages, which are nightmarish to maintain and debug. PowerShell, nushell, or similar solutions have a much higher complexity ceiling.)

transpute 2y ago
2025 update of this 2006 presentation has a better title, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43714928 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43714928 Seat Belts and Airbags for bash
- pragma_x 2y ago
  Thank you for linking this. I really want to reach for that pun and suggest: "Seat Belts and Airbags for bash safety" as an even better title.
  - pottmi 2y ago
    Are you bashing bash?
    - pragma_x 2y ago
      All day, every day. And that's coming from someone that _likes_ working with it.
      - pottmi 2y ago
        Yeah, despite having created that presentation and having given it 50 times if I were to do another IBM JCL to shell conversion I would convert to zsh.
rascul 2y ago
Aren't TCL and Perl stringly-typed scripting languages?
- Philpax 2y ago
  You won't catch me defending them ;)
- uh2010 2y ago
  Yes - at least in Tcl, _everything_ is a string
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Not everything, and this already changed a while back. > The core of the Tcl interpreter has been replaced with an on-the-fly compiler that translates Tcl scripts to byte codes; a new interpreter then executes the byte codes. In earlier versions of Tcl, strings were used as a universal representation; in Tcl 8.0 strings are replaced with Tcl_Obj structures ("objects") that can hold both a string value and an internal form such as a binary integer or compiled bytecodes. http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes8.0.html http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes...
- pjmlp 2y ago
  No for Perl, in Tcl kind of, it changed in Tcl 8, already long time ago. http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes8.0.html http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes...
jsbg 2y ago
> This statement primarily applies to existing stringly-typed scripting languages IMO it applies to all languages. Fancy language features usually make for poor maintainability, e.g. metaprogramming.

transpute 2y ago

2025 update of this 2006 presentation has a better title, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43714928 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43714928 Seat Belts and Airbags for bash

pragma_x 2y ago
Thank you for linking this. I really want to reach for that pun and suggest: "Seat Belts and Airbags for bash safety" as an even better title.
- pottmi 2y ago
  Are you bashing bash?
  - pragma_x 2y ago
    All day, every day. And that's coming from someone that _likes_ working with it.
    - pottmi 2y ago
      Yeah, despite having created that presentation and having given it 50 times if I were to do another IBM JCL to shell conversion I would convert to zsh.

rascul 2y ago

Aren't TCL and Perl stringly-typed scripting languages?

Philpax 2y ago
You won't catch me defending them ;)
uh2010 2y ago
Yes - at least in Tcl, _everything_ is a string
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Not everything, and this already changed a while back. > The core of the Tcl interpreter has been replaced with an on-the-fly compiler that translates Tcl scripts to byte codes; a new interpreter then executes the byte codes. In earlier versions of Tcl, strings were used as a universal representation; in Tcl 8.0 strings are replaced with Tcl_Obj structures ("objects") that can hold both a string value and an internal form such as a binary integer or compiled bytecodes. http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes8.0.html http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes...
pjmlp 2y ago
No for Perl, in Tcl kind of, it changed in Tcl 8, already long time ago. http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes8.0.html http://www.ira.inaf.it/Computing/manuals/tcl/man-8.0/Changes...

jsbg 2y ago

> This statement primarily applies to existing stringly-typed scripting languages IMO it applies to all languages. Fancy language features usually make for poor maintainability, e.g. metaprogramming.