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Just to be clear, there are NO Country's with "free public health care" but Europe has (mostly) "health care paid by society with compulsory health insurance or

Just to be clear, there are NO Country's with "free public health care" but Europe has (mostly) "health care paid by society with compulsory health insurance or taxes and some taxes on alcohol/tabacco etc and some even on sugar ;) ".

adzm 2y ago
> Europe has (mostly) "health care paid by society with compulsory health insurance and some taxes on alcohol/tabacco etc and some on sugar ;) ". Which is colloquially referred to as free healthcare.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >Which is colloquially referred to as free healthcare. No, that's the point, it's called "Universal healthcare" and it's NOT free, since for most country's you need "compulsory health insurance" or it's paid by taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
basisword 2y ago
Frustrating. I considered expanding on the definition of 'free' in my comment to ward off pedants. Decided it wasn't necessary but we live and learn I suppose.
- MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
  "Free" is simply wrong, both pedantically and in a "pushing hidden agendas and framing actually matters" way. It is socialised healthcare.
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    >"pushing hidden agendas and framing actually matters" Thank you very much, this is exactly the point, americans cheer the "free health care" and do not see the point that for example a swiss family has to pay 15-20% of their income every month for compulsory health insurance this is not a choice..one HAS to pay it, additionally, dental stuff for example is not included if it is not from a sickness. It's absolutely NOT free and a big burden for most citizens who live in country's with Universal healthcare.
    - MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
      It is mostly an enormous wealth transfer from the young to the old, which now constitute the majority of voters in the western democracies. Meanwhile both midwifes and children doctors are severely under-financed, even common treatments require months of waiting time because the reimbursements do not even cover the costs. Considering that most countries are in a demographic crisis and will go insolvent with 100% certainty due to the mismatch between net payers and their future financial obligations, this is insane.
    - peppers-ghost 2y ago
      Important context here is that Americans pay on average higher healthcare costs than any country with universal healthcare. We have to pay more and get worse service for that payment. Not only are we paying more, there's more parties involved, more hoops to jump through and it's extremely frustrating.
      - BSDobelix 2y ago
        Yes you are absolutely right, your medicare is a scam without any laws to protect the "obligatory" paying customer, that's a "you" problem.
bfdm 2y ago
This is widely understood to mean "free to the patient at time of use/need". Stop being deliberately obtuse.
- Gud 2y ago
  I disagree with you. It is better to use precise language. “Free healthcare” is an obvious political term used by people who are in favor of tax funded healthcare. FWIW I come from Sweden where we do have “free healthcare”, and it’s usually referred to as skattefinansierad, which means tax funded…
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >This is widely understood to mean "free to the patient at time of use/need". This is called insurance, sometimes provided by society sometimes by business or a mix of both, but never is it "free".
peppers-ghost 2y ago
Nobody on Earth needs this explained to them
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  Obviously everyone who uses the word "free" instead of "universal" need's it. It's not free beer but universal beer.
  - peppers-ghost 2y ago
    Yeah I still don't think you're right. The point you're making is understood to the point that it's just noise to add an explainer every time you see the word free.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      Just call it universal healthcare, a toddler would think something is free because you do not have to pay for a service immediately. For most people in Europe paying for healthcare is number two or even number one expense, no real concern for the really poor or really rich but kicks the nuts of the lower-middle to middle incomes. The only people who call it "free" are from the US, not a single european would call it "free".
      - peppers-ghost 2y ago
        There's plenty of cultural differences I accept about Europe, you can manage to accept this one about the US.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        BSDobelix 2y ago
        >cultural differences It's stupidity, not cultural difference, when one side talks about free and the other side who has that "free" health care feels it's a massive (but good) burden. I'm absolutely for this system, as a Swiss citizen I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved, but man it's hard...really hard, and it's only going to get worse because of the age shift.
cassianoleal 2y ago
This is like saying you need to pay to walk on the pavement, or you need to pay to see at night when outside. Of course there is a cost associated but most places count all that as part of the cost of living in society.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >This is like saying you need to pay to walk on the pavement >or you need to pay to see at night when outside. Yes, please go outside and ask any random person that you have free sidewalks and free streetlights, they will probably look at you like you are a toddler.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    What does “free” mean to you? Is anything actually free by your definition?
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      In most places Air is free, access to clean water is in some country's also free, and here (Switzerland) taking the leftover potatoes after harvest is also free, berry's and mushrooms in the forest also free, fishing in some lakes free, hunting also free, take wood for your personal bonfire...free.
      - cassianoleal 2y ago
        Most or all of your examples rely on government regulations and enforcement. That has to be paid for, just as much as street lighting. Furthermore, it requires some level of national sovereignty. That’s acquired and maintained through military and diplomatic power, such as strong alliances. Again, paid by taxes.

adzm 2y ago

> Europe has (mostly) "health care paid by society with compulsory health insurance and some taxes on alcohol/tabacco etc and some on sugar ;) ". Which is colloquially referred to as free healthcare.

BSDobelix 2y ago
>Which is colloquially referred to as free healthcare. No, that's the point, it's called "Universal healthcare" and it's NOT free, since for most country's you need "compulsory health insurance" or it's paid by taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

basisword 2y ago

Frustrating. I considered expanding on the definition of 'free' in my comment to ward off pedants. Decided it wasn't necessary but we live and learn I suppose.

MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
"Free" is simply wrong, both pedantically and in a "pushing hidden agendas and framing actually matters" way. It is socialised healthcare.
- BSDobelix 2y ago
  >"pushing hidden agendas and framing actually matters" Thank you very much, this is exactly the point, americans cheer the "free health care" and do not see the point that for example a swiss family has to pay 15-20% of their income every month for compulsory health insurance this is not a choice..one HAS to pay it, additionally, dental stuff for example is not included if it is not from a sickness. It's absolutely NOT free and a big burden for most citizens who live in country's with Universal healthcare.
  - MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
    It is mostly an enormous wealth transfer from the young to the old, which now constitute the majority of voters in the western democracies. Meanwhile both midwifes and children doctors are severely under-financed, even common treatments require months of waiting time because the reimbursements do not even cover the costs. Considering that most countries are in a demographic crisis and will go insolvent with 100% certainty due to the mismatch between net payers and their future financial obligations, this is insane.
  - peppers-ghost 2y ago
    Important context here is that Americans pay on average higher healthcare costs than any country with universal healthcare. We have to pay more and get worse service for that payment. Not only are we paying more, there's more parties involved, more hoops to jump through and it's extremely frustrating.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      Yes you are absolutely right, your medicare is a scam without any laws to protect the "obligatory" paying customer, that's a "you" problem.

bfdm 2y ago

This is widely understood to mean "free to the patient at time of use/need". Stop being deliberately obtuse.

Gud 2y ago
I disagree with you. It is better to use precise language. “Free healthcare” is an obvious political term used by people who are in favor of tax funded healthcare. FWIW I come from Sweden where we do have “free healthcare”, and it’s usually referred to as skattefinansierad, which means tax funded…
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
BSDobelix 2y ago
>This is widely understood to mean "free to the patient at time of use/need". This is called insurance, sometimes provided by society sometimes by business or a mix of both, but never is it "free".

peppers-ghost 2y ago

Nobody on Earth needs this explained to them

BSDobelix 2y ago
Obviously everyone who uses the word "free" instead of "universal" need's it. It's not free beer but universal beer.
- peppers-ghost 2y ago
  Yeah I still don't think you're right. The point you're making is understood to the point that it's just noise to add an explainer every time you see the word free.
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    Just call it universal healthcare, a toddler would think something is free because you do not have to pay for a service immediately. For most people in Europe paying for healthcare is number two or even number one expense, no real concern for the really poor or really rich but kicks the nuts of the lower-middle to middle incomes. The only people who call it "free" are from the US, not a single european would call it "free".
    - peppers-ghost 2y ago
      There's plenty of cultural differences I accept about Europe, you can manage to accept this one about the US.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - BSDobelix 2y ago
        >cultural differences It's stupidity, not cultural difference, when one side talks about free and the other side who has that "free" health care feels it's a massive (but good) burden. I'm absolutely for this system, as a Swiss citizen I'm incredibly proud of what we've achieved, but man it's hard...really hard, and it's only going to get worse because of the age shift.

cassianoleal 2y ago

This is like saying you need to pay to walk on the pavement, or you need to pay to see at night when outside. Of course there is a cost associated but most places count all that as part of the cost of living in society.

BSDobelix 2y ago
>This is like saying you need to pay to walk on the pavement >or you need to pay to see at night when outside. Yes, please go outside and ask any random person that you have free sidewalks and free streetlights, they will probably look at you like you are a toddler.
- cassianoleal 2y ago
  What does “free” mean to you? Is anything actually free by your definition?
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    In most places Air is free, access to clean water is in some country's also free, and here (Switzerland) taking the leftover potatoes after harvest is also free, berry's and mushrooms in the forest also free, fishing in some lakes free, hunting also free, take wood for your personal bonfire...free.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Most or all of your examples rely on government regulations and enforcement. That has to be paid for, just as much as street lighting. Furthermore, it requires some level of national sovereignty. That’s acquired and maintained through military and diplomatic power, such as strong alliances. Again, paid by taxes.