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I hope people realize that protesting or being angry at Trump/Republicans is pointless. The power is bestowed upon them by Republican voters and they are to bl

by Braxton1980 2y ago

I hope people realize that protesting or being angry at Trump/Republicans is pointless. The power is bestowed upon them by Republican voters and they are to blame. Voting for one issue, lack of education, or desire to tune out politics isn't a reasonable excuse. Edit I have no issue with downvotes but offer up arguments why voters aren't responsible.

JojoFatsani 2y ago
What is the point of this post? There are a lot of people to be angry at here. Demonstrating displeasure to elected officials is our first amendment right.
- wiz21c 2y ago
  I think the point was: Trump is just a symptom, not the disease...
  - kowabungalow 2y ago
    Trump is a disease, the tools he uses are the opportunities given to adapt Putin's template for the American Empire.
  - goatlover 2y ago
    Trump is the one in power and he's following an autocratic takeover playbook. So by all means push back.
  - apercu 2y ago
    For all of us who have "lost" family members to propaganda, I worry that Fox "News" is the disease.
    - Braxton1980 2y ago
      Let's be real "Fox News" isn't a spinning black and white wheel that hypnotizes you or has some other movie like power. People are responsible for their views. Especially if they don't look into other viewpoints, consider it they are being lied to, etc.
      - apercu 2y ago
        I think that was possibly the case in the days of print newspapers. But I'm not sure I can blame individuals that are targeted all day every day by global corporations messaging them. They are getting brainwashed by Twitter, Facebook, "News" websites, Televisions. Billions are being spent every day to mould your thoughts to their desires. How does a single individual fight that? It's like saying "Jesus and personal responsibility" will save you from your heroin addiction.
        Braxton1980 2y ago
        >It's like saying "Jesus and personal responsibility" will save you from your heroin addiction. Is the heroin addict seeking help?
        apercu 2y ago
        I should have been clearer than I was, you're not wrong, I just find nearly everything is more nuanced than we allow for in discourse these days, and I have sympathy for people because I, too, found it hard to eat healthy and exercise enough when I was an executive with an 11 hour work day due to a 2:45 hour combined daily commute. And I was a distance runner for 20 years.
        Braxton1980 2y ago
        >I have sympathy for people because I, too, found it hard to eat healthy and exercise enough when I was an executive with an 11 hour work day So you were overweight and/or ate poorly..But you wanted to be healthy? This analogy, along with the drug addict one, doesn't work because 1. They don't believe they are doing something wrong 2. Aren't trying to fix the issue. >nuanced Then let's get deeper here. Offer up an argument with some nuance. My viewpoint isn't (I hope) contingent on ignoring the complexities of the situation
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  >Demonstrating displeasure to elected officials is our first amendment right It has no purpose and you're not going after the source
- ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
  I see many of these kinds of posts these days, and I honestly suspect they are bots seeking to demoralize the opposition into inaction.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    1.I'm not a bot 2. How am I demoralizing the opposition? I'm directing them to a more ideal target.
- int_19h 2y ago
  It absolutely is, but don't expect it to actually change anything. The usual avenues to air grievances that modern Americans are used to, like writing your representative or even peaceful mass protests, only work in a political culture where they are universally perceived as detrimental to government's legitimacy and that matters. We are past this point now, and, arguably, have been for a while. For an example of how well such tactics work in a different culture, look at e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot... To put it bluntly, Trump and people who elected him don't give a fuck about "whiny libs". If you want to convince them to change course, you need to cause them actual measurable harm. Starting with economic - mass strikes etc - but be prepared that government would escalate to physical and match in kind.
MoonGhost 2y ago
[flagged]
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  >flourishing black racism 1. Quantify racist behavior 2. Show it's increasing 3. Show that Democrats are responsible or that electing Harris, who is half black, would cause it to increase > open borders Define an open border. >There are voters who would vote for dems no matter what, even with there education True and while foolish of them they were still on the better side. >nuclear.. What real chance? Russia wants some or all of Ukraine as a territory, nukes make no sense. It would also make it harder politically for European right wing governments to tone down their help of Ukraine
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  "never ending war with real chances of tactic nuclear strikes" Do you really think that Trump will somehow stop the Russo-Ukrainian war? Hasn't worked out well so far, right? He has some leverage on the Ukrainians, but far from decisive one, and basically no leverage at all on the Kremlin.
belter 2y ago
This post shouldn't be downvoted. Just as it's well known that a majority of the Russian population supports the invasion of Ukraine, not solely due to misinformation. So too must the majority of U.S. voters who elected the current, legitimately constituted administration bear collective responsibility for their choices and the consequences that follow.
- haswell 2y ago
  31.5% of eligible voters voted for the current administration. 49.8% of voters who voted were in favor of the current administration. Clearly the way people vote matters. But I bristle at the sentiment that protesting against it is “pointless”. Such protests are as much a signal to those who voted as it is to those who didn’t and those who hold power. It’s an ecosystem reacting in the way it should react when threatened.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    >Such protests are as much a signal to those who voted as it is to those who didn’t and those who hold power. Non-voters is a good point but I'm not sure the affect with Trump. Are there people who weren't aware of how much people dislike him? It is an ecosystem, like I get why it's happening but I disagree with the target.
    - haswell 2y ago
      > Are there people who weren't aware of how much people dislike him? I don’t understand the framing of this question. People are protesting because of actions taking place now. Even many of his supporters have buyer’s remorse and didn’t expect many of the things we’ve seen from this 2nd iteration. Whether or not many people are already “aware” of the existence of dislike seems entirely irrelevant. When the immune system reacts, it does so because of a present threat. The fact that the immune system has memory of some threats doesn’t make it less necessary to react. And I don’t think it’s fair to claim that the wrong target has been chosen. Most people are protesting against the symptom and the disease. And there’s a case to be made that the administration is both.
__alexs 2y ago
They are in the chain of responsibility but they are not the proximate cause of the issue.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  Can you elaborate on what the cause is?
  - foogazi 2y ago
    The person making the decisions “The Buck Stops Here” Harry S. Truman
    - Braxton1980 2y ago
      >The person making the decisions Exactly, the decision on who to vote for
viraptor 2y ago
Protesting is not for Trump. Nobody there expects him to step down just because enough people showed up. People are showing how many got fed up enough to be loud and encourage/enable others.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  That's fair but then it needs to cast a wider net based on political ideology.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    If you figure out how to efficiently co-ordinate millions of people in political messaging, give it a go...
    - Braxton1980 2y ago
      I can't personally but this doesn't invalidate my argument. Maybe Bernie or AOC could help, pundits could slowly start redirecting people's anger to MAGA supporters.

JojoFatsani 2y ago

What is the point of this post? There are a lot of people to be angry at here. Demonstrating displeasure to elected officials is our first amendment right.

wiz21c 2y ago
I think the point was: Trump is just a symptom, not the disease...
- kowabungalow 2y ago
  Trump is a disease, the tools he uses are the opportunities given to adapt Putin's template for the American Empire.
- goatlover 2y ago
  Trump is the one in power and he's following an autocratic takeover playbook. So by all means push back.
- apercu 2y ago
  For all of us who have "lost" family members to propaganda, I worry that Fox "News" is the disease.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    Let's be real "Fox News" isn't a spinning black and white wheel that hypnotizes you or has some other movie like power. People are responsible for their views. Especially if they don't look into other viewpoints, consider it they are being lied to, etc.
    - apercu 2y ago
      I think that was possibly the case in the days of print newspapers. But I'm not sure I can blame individuals that are targeted all day every day by global corporations messaging them. They are getting brainwashed by Twitter, Facebook, "News" websites, Televisions. Billions are being spent every day to mould your thoughts to their desires. How does a single individual fight that? It's like saying "Jesus and personal responsibility" will save you from your heroin addiction.
      - Braxton1980 2y ago
        >It's like saying "Jesus and personal responsibility" will save you from your heroin addiction. Is the heroin addict seeking help?
        apercu 2y ago
        I should have been clearer than I was, you're not wrong, I just find nearly everything is more nuanced than we allow for in discourse these days, and I have sympathy for people because I, too, found it hard to eat healthy and exercise enough when I was an executive with an 11 hour work day due to a 2:45 hour combined daily commute. And I was a distance runner for 20 years.
        Braxton1980 2y ago
        >I have sympathy for people because I, too, found it hard to eat healthy and exercise enough when I was an executive with an 11 hour work day So you were overweight and/or ate poorly..But you wanted to be healthy? This analogy, along with the drug addict one, doesn't work because 1. They don't believe they are doing something wrong 2. Aren't trying to fix the issue. >nuanced Then let's get deeper here. Offer up an argument with some nuance. My viewpoint isn't (I hope) contingent on ignoring the complexities of the situation
Braxton1980 2y ago
>Demonstrating displeasure to elected officials is our first amendment right It has no purpose and you're not going after the source
ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
I see many of these kinds of posts these days, and I honestly suspect they are bots seeking to demoralize the opposition into inaction.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  1.I'm not a bot 2. How am I demoralizing the opposition? I'm directing them to a more ideal target.
int_19h 2y ago
It absolutely is, but don't expect it to actually change anything. The usual avenues to air grievances that modern Americans are used to, like writing your representative or even peaceful mass protests, only work in a political culture where they are universally perceived as detrimental to government's legitimacy and that matters. We are past this point now, and, arguably, have been for a while. For an example of how well such tactics work in a different culture, look at e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot... To put it bluntly, Trump and people who elected him don't give a fuck about "whiny libs". If you want to convince them to change course, you need to cause them actual measurable harm. Starting with economic - mass strikes etc - but be prepared that government would escalate to physical and match in kind.

MoonGhost 2y ago

[flagged]

Braxton1980 2y ago
>flourishing black racism 1. Quantify racist behavior 2. Show it's increasing 3. Show that Democrats are responsible or that electing Harris, who is half black, would cause it to increase > open borders Define an open border. >There are voters who would vote for dems no matter what, even with there education True and while foolish of them they were still on the better side. >nuclear.. What real chance? Russia wants some or all of Ukraine as a territory, nukes make no sense. It would also make it harder politically for European right wing governments to tone down their help of Ukraine
inglor_cz 2y ago
"never ending war with real chances of tactic nuclear strikes" Do you really think that Trump will somehow stop the Russo-Ukrainian war? Hasn't worked out well so far, right? He has some leverage on the Ukrainians, but far from decisive one, and basically no leverage at all on the Kremlin.

belter 2y ago

This post shouldn't be downvoted. Just as it's well known that a majority of the Russian population supports the invasion of Ukraine, not solely due to misinformation. So too must the majority of U.S. voters who elected the current, legitimately constituted administration bear collective responsibility for their choices and the consequences that follow.

haswell 2y ago
31.5% of eligible voters voted for the current administration. 49.8% of voters who voted were in favor of the current administration. Clearly the way people vote matters. But I bristle at the sentiment that protesting against it is “pointless”. Such protests are as much a signal to those who voted as it is to those who didn’t and those who hold power. It’s an ecosystem reacting in the way it should react when threatened.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  >Such protests are as much a signal to those who voted as it is to those who didn’t and those who hold power. Non-voters is a good point but I'm not sure the affect with Trump. Are there people who weren't aware of how much people dislike him? It is an ecosystem, like I get why it's happening but I disagree with the target.
  - haswell 2y ago
    > Are there people who weren't aware of how much people dislike him? I don’t understand the framing of this question. People are protesting because of actions taking place now. Even many of his supporters have buyer’s remorse and didn’t expect many of the things we’ve seen from this 2nd iteration. Whether or not many people are already “aware” of the existence of dislike seems entirely irrelevant. When the immune system reacts, it does so because of a present threat. The fact that the immune system has memory of some threats doesn’t make it less necessary to react. And I don’t think it’s fair to claim that the wrong target has been chosen. Most people are protesting against the symptom and the disease. And there’s a case to be made that the administration is both.

__alexs 2y ago

They are in the chain of responsibility but they are not the proximate cause of the issue.

Braxton1980 2y ago
Can you elaborate on what the cause is?
- foogazi 2y ago
  The person making the decisions “The Buck Stops Here” Harry S. Truman
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    >The person making the decisions Exactly, the decision on who to vote for

viraptor 2y ago

Protesting is not for Trump. Nobody there expects him to step down just because enough people showed up. People are showing how many got fed up enough to be loud and encourage/enable others.

Braxton1980 2y ago
That's fair but then it needs to cast a wider net based on political ideology.
- viraptor 2y ago
  If you figure out how to efficiently co-ordinate millions of people in political messaging, give it a go...
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    I can't personally but this doesn't invalidate my argument. Maybe Bernie or AOC could help, pundits could slowly start redirecting people's anger to MAGA supporters.