4 ms·

Indeed - but isn't the court decision, as per TFA, a step in the right direction? Courts are slow but if they grind in the right direction, they get there. Ame

Indeed - but isn't the court decision, as per TFA, a step in the right direction? Courts are slow but if they grind in the right direction, they get there. Americans don't have much experience of this kind of tug of war (good for you). So far Trump hasn't faced any difficulties yet. Courts haven't kicked in, economy is steady, no external shocks and the tariff stuff hasn't percolated down to Main Street. It's easy to be a populist. The hard stuff starts when the combined noose of court action, domestic discontent and external shocks really starts to bite, and there's still hope courts will retain their independence.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
If they move so slowly that they take over four years to deal with an insurrection attempt, then they are effectively not working as intended
- pjc50 2y ago
  Don't forget that a NY court directly enabled this by convicting the President of misuse of campaign funds and then applying zero sentence.
- rich_sasha 2y ago
  I can see why you say so, and it is a concern, equally if you assume that courts are slow and work eventually, that's what it will look like on the happy trajectory of law being enforced. If you assume US is now irredeemably fucked forever, you might as well stop venting. But nothing actually is forever. Much, much worse Soviet rule in Europe lasted 45 years. I still hold out that populism in the US will be over much sooner.
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I think it will take a lot more than the judiciary to depose Trump. If they can't meaningfully penalise him for the insurrection when he wasn't president, then they're even more powerless now that he is.
    - rich_sasha 2y ago
      If Trump, or anyone else, makes people really angry, I would imagine his "unimpeachability" will go. I agree, I wouldn't count on the judiciary to stop him in his tracks. Even then, if some of his associates go to prison, and stay there, everyone else might think twice next time they are given dubious instructions.
  - Tadpole9181 2y ago
    People always say stuff like this, forgetting that the level of technology has skyrocketed. We cannot compare the USSR in the 20th century to the mass surveillance state and technology-dependant lives that exists today. And even in a significantly weaker, more vulnerable position, the USSR only really fell apart due to internal stresses. The people themselves were completely subjugated in the meantime, a cultural norm that has continued long after the fall of the union and led to the rise of (attempted) fascism again in those states. There is no real reason to believe that a state with this level of sophistication, if willing to use the US military on civilians, could ever be toppled by the people.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

If they move so slowly that they take over four years to deal with an insurrection attempt, then they are effectively not working as intended

pjc50 2y ago
Don't forget that a NY court directly enabled this by convicting the President of misuse of campaign funds and then applying zero sentence.
rich_sasha 2y ago
I can see why you say so, and it is a concern, equally if you assume that courts are slow and work eventually, that's what it will look like on the happy trajectory of law being enforced. If you assume US is now irredeemably fucked forever, you might as well stop venting. But nothing actually is forever. Much, much worse Soviet rule in Europe lasted 45 years. I still hold out that populism in the US will be over much sooner.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  I think it will take a lot more than the judiciary to depose Trump. If they can't meaningfully penalise him for the insurrection when he wasn't president, then they're even more powerless now that he is.
  - rich_sasha 2y ago
    If Trump, or anyone else, makes people really angry, I would imagine his "unimpeachability" will go. I agree, I wouldn't count on the judiciary to stop him in his tracks. Even then, if some of his associates go to prison, and stay there, everyone else might think twice next time they are given dubious instructions.
- Tadpole9181 2y ago
  People always say stuff like this, forgetting that the level of technology has skyrocketed. We cannot compare the USSR in the 20th century to the mass surveillance state and technology-dependant lives that exists today. And even in a significantly weaker, more vulnerable position, the USSR only really fell apart due to internal stresses. The people themselves were completely subjugated in the meantime, a cultural norm that has continued long after the fall of the union and led to the rise of (attempted) fascism again in those states. There is no real reason to believe that a state with this level of sophistication, if willing to use the US military on civilians, could ever be toppled by the people.