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Horrible as it may sound, I'm not sure this is the court case that has the most chances of brining people on the judge's "side". (Don't get me wrong, I know th

• thinkingemote 2y ago
  > Is there a lawsuit brewing about harm done by the trump administration to kids of white, non immigrants, conservative, affluent, christian, devouts, mainstream and influencial Americans ? Interesting. In effect I think you are asking how the opposition should appeal to the supporters. One way would be as you suggest to angle the message towards their identity, their group affiliation. This would work for the groups you suggest but this would a) only strengthen group identities that are being targeted and b) weaken the oppositions beliefs in their own groups. The opposition views politics as groups of people with characteristics at fight with each other. The election showed that for supporters the hard identity groupings are, at best that softer than before and at worst don't actually exist in reality. A more effective argument would lead to the opposition using the belief system of their target. For example "All people have equality and valuable personhood and illegal actions damage this inherent value". This is basically the classical liberal mindset based on Christian values. But this isn't really the mindset of those in opposition while they continue to view the world as being run by power between conflicting identity groups. They believe that people are not equal, that equity is more important, that people belong to groups with inherent characteristics of varying levels of power, and that to solve issues the power needs to move between groups. In other words, yes, an appeal to the group identities of the supporters will probably work for some but it will strengthen their group identity (increased race-nationalism), and the supporters actually cover a much wider range than the identities you give. An alternative appeal to the values of the supporters would work much better but would lead to a weakening of the oppositions own beliefs. Looking at it from a religion lens: the opposition cannot use Christian appeals to morality while they reject Christianity. "In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." Enders Game
  • phtrivier 2y ago
    > Interesting. In effect I think you are asking how the opposition should appeal to the supporters. Exactly. The opposition has to realize that they are outnumbered, at the moment ; but this is not a static or permanent things. By definition, every majority hangs on "swing voters", and is ousted when the swing voters decide to swing again. "Appealing to your base" is how you win primaries ; if you continue beyond that, and insist on "purity", "support 100% of our causes, or you're a facist", while the other side has a "big tent" strategy, then you only alienate potential supporters, and opposition is going to be long. (Caveat: of course, this assumes pretty "normal" conditions where elections happen fairly, on a regular basis, etc...) Also, about the role of "kids" in those discussion, one side obviously knows how to do it _very_ well: [1] [1] https://heated.world/p/climate-science-isnt-giving-your https://heated.world/p/climate-science-isnt-giving-your
• pjc50 2y ago
  > Trump can play the "tribal" card to his base very easily Well, yes. It's the Pinochet situation; I'm sure the majority of white Americans can be propaganda'd into supporting having dissidents thrown out of helicopters. > harm done by the trump administration to kids of white, non immigrants, conservative, affluent, christian, devouts, mainstream and influencial Americans The whole point of a fascist setup with personal rule is that those people will get almost instantly exempted from any of this stuff happening to them. Whether that's by the discretion of agents on the ground or as soon as it reaches the media. And including in cases where they've committed actual crimes.
• tstrimple 2y ago
  > However, we know they care about kids. This is just one more in a long string of lies. They absolutely do not care about kids unless it's about their right to marry them[1]. Or watch passively as they die to easily preventable diseases[2]. Or go out of their way to deny them access to food[3]. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/wyoming-ending-child-marriage-sparks-republican-outrage-1780501 https://www.newsweek.com/wyoming-ending-child-marriage-spark... [2]: https://www.texastribune.org/2025/03/20/texas-measles-family-gaines-county-death/ https://www.texastribune.org/2025/03/20/texas-measles-family... [3]: https://newrepublic.com/post/173668/republicans-declare-banning-universal-free-school-meals-2024-priority https://newrepublic.com/post/173668/republicans-declare-bann...
  • phtrivier 2y ago
    I meant they care about _their_ kids. They don't fear their kids will be married in Wyoming, or part of mennonites, or poor. They're terrified that their kids could turn gay, or be raped in the bathroom by a trans men, or be denied a scholarship because some other diverse kid is getting it. Are those fear rational ? I don't know. Is one side much better at stoking such fear than the other ? I do know. Which side is going to keep winning until the other side gets it's act together, if it ever gets a chance ? You bet I have my opinions...
• FireBeyond 2y ago
  > But here, Trump can play the "tribal" card to his base very easily (I'm expecting a variation of "non white woke judges are once again defending dangerous illegal gang members immigrants against hard working white Americans, this is a witch hunt, fight !") Just today (yesterday?) they're already doing this - the Press Secretary paraded a mom whose daughter was murdered by an undocumented immigrant and said "this is why we're doing this, for people like her", completely ignoring the small detail that this current person is not accused, suspected, or convicted of murdering anyone.