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If you split the armies up between them, that would invite civil war. Maybe they figured if things get too bad, officers of good conscience would stem the madn

If you split the armies up between them, that would invite civil war. Maybe they figured if things get too bad, officers of good conscience would stem the madness and have some political/legal cover from the other 1-2 branches? Eg. If a president tried to give orders to the military after being impeached and removed, it's doubtful they'd be followed.

silisili 2y ago
One may assume. The problem then is compounded by the fact the president picks the secdef, and is more or less able to fire anyone showing an ounce of 'disloyalty', as we've seen happen in recent weeks. Twice if memory serves me right. So all but the very dumbest would curate their military leaders before attempting boldness.
pjmlp 2y ago
That never works, see the dictorships along the history, most folks fall back into the "I was following orders" excuse, because as it happens, if they refuse there is another one with no problem with "I was following orders" that will put them into place, regardless of the form.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Hence the Allies imposed a constitution on Germany in which there is an individual obligation on military personnel to uphold the constitution over following orders. Not perfect but a useful countermeasure.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yeah, but at the end of the day, what is on paper and the actions one is willing to do aren't really the same. It took us 48 years to get rid of our dictatorship, and in theory there were multiple occasions where the militar could have joined to take it down, it was only when the colonial wars got bad enough, that there was enough people in the movement to have made it possible. And to make a point out of it, the laws imposed by the Allied did nothing to prevent what happened in East Germany and Stasi deeds after that law came to be.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      > 48 years to get rid of our dictatorship Trying to work out which country you're referring to - Spain? Portugal? East Germany? > laws imposed by the Allied did nothing to prevent what happened in East Germany and Stasi deeds after that law came to be Well, yes, I should probably have clarified West Germany, a different country from East Germany, due to the Soviet control at the end of WW2. I suppose the point is that no legal order withstands overwhelming force in the end.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Portugal, 1933 - 1974. I belong to the first generation growing up as a child after the dictorship ended, thus like many people around the world in similar circustances, I do happen to have a close relation to what it means, and stand by the revolution cries "25 April forever, fascism never again", that unfortunely many in voting age have no clue what it actually means in practice, hence we have our own issues coming to our shores with Chega party.

silisili 2y ago

One may assume. The problem then is compounded by the fact the president picks the secdef, and is more or less able to fire anyone showing an ounce of 'disloyalty', as we've seen happen in recent weeks. Twice if memory serves me right. So all but the very dumbest would curate their military leaders before attempting boldness.

pjmlp 2y ago

That never works, see the dictorships along the history, most folks fall back into the "I was following orders" excuse, because as it happens, if they refuse there is another one with no problem with "I was following orders" that will put them into place, regardless of the form.

pjc50 2y ago
Hence the Allies imposed a constitution on Germany in which there is an individual obligation on military personnel to uphold the constitution over following orders. Not perfect but a useful countermeasure.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Yeah, but at the end of the day, what is on paper and the actions one is willing to do aren't really the same. It took us 48 years to get rid of our dictatorship, and in theory there were multiple occasions where the militar could have joined to take it down, it was only when the colonial wars got bad enough, that there was enough people in the movement to have made it possible. And to make a point out of it, the laws imposed by the Allied did nothing to prevent what happened in East Germany and Stasi deeds after that law came to be.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    > 48 years to get rid of our dictatorship Trying to work out which country you're referring to - Spain? Portugal? East Germany? > laws imposed by the Allied did nothing to prevent what happened in East Germany and Stasi deeds after that law came to be Well, yes, I should probably have clarified West Germany, a different country from East Germany, due to the Soviet control at the end of WW2. I suppose the point is that no legal order withstands overwhelming force in the end.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Portugal, 1933 - 1974. I belong to the first generation growing up as a child after the dictorship ended, thus like many people around the world in similar circustances, I do happen to have a close relation to what it means, and stand by the revolution cries "25 April forever, fascism never again", that unfortunely many in voting age have no clue what it actually means in practice, hence we have our own issues coming to our shores with Chega party.