6 ms·

OpenAI in Talks to Buy Windsurf for About $3B

60 points by mfiguiere 2y ago

minimaxir 2y ago
Sure, why not? If OpenAI wants to have their own social network, might as well have their own IDE too.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mrdependable 2y ago
Didn't Windsurf just come out a few months ago? Wish I could read the article to understand how that number was reached.
- minimaxir 2y ago
  The parent company Codeium last raised a Series C of $150M at a valuation of $1.25B: https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/29/github-copilot-competitor-codeium-raises-150m-at-a-1-25b-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/29/github-copilot-competitor-... That was in August 2024, before the vibe-coding meme hype, so $3B makes sense.
  - JLvL 2y ago
    TechCrunch has a more recent article (https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/19/ai-coding-startup-codeium-in-talks-to-raise-at-an-almost-3b-valuation-sources-say/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/19/ai-coding-startup-codeium-...) that has the company valued at $2.85 billion but this was due to them being in talks to raise even more funding this financial quarter.
- MasterScrat 2y ago
  https://archive.is/N2zPT https://archive.is/N2zPT
rvz 2y ago
Hmm... I thought they would buy Cursor yesterday. [0] Anyway, it always makes sense to buy something much cheaper. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43698819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43698819
- _--__--__ 2y ago
  I do not regularly use either, but my impression is that Cursor's users have primarily been using Claude and are largely switching to Gemini, while Windsurf has a lot of existing enterprise contracts that wouldn't even notice an underlying model switch from the proprietary Codeium model to o3 mini or whatever.
  - mkozlows 2y ago
    Windsurf users are mostly using Claude too.
- ein0p 2y ago
  Could be that they're negotiating with both in an attempt to create better price leverage. That's what I would do.
paxys 2y ago
And people say there's no AI bubble... I wonder what Cursor's market value is at this point. Definitey north of $10B right? Their founders and investors would be wise to exit while the AI market is still hot (and the rest is not).
- jennaxyz 2y ago
  Why not? If it captures enterprise IDE market, it's definitely worthy of the valuation implying the future growth potential. Jetbrains is valued at 7B
- eightysixfour 2y ago
  I’m putting most of my energy into AI these days but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think there is a bubble, but an overvaluation early doesn’t mean the value isn’t there and won’t come later (see .com crash).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- spaceywilly 2y ago
  To play devils advocate, software engineering is currently proving to be a hugely valuable use case for AI, and will almost certainly grow over time. I’m not sure what the market cap for software engineering tooling is, but I assume $5B or even $10B would only represent a tiny fraction of the TAM. Here is one report that projects a $25B market by 2030. It would not take long to recoup their investment if that prediction comes true. https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/03/26/3049705/28124/en/Artificial-Intelligence-Code-Tools-Research-Report-2025-Global-Market-to-Surpass-25-Billion-by-2030-Demand-for-Low-Code-No-Code-Platforms-Spurs-Adoption.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/03/26/304970...
  - paxys 2y ago
    The software engineering market is one thing, but these editors are all basically VS Code + custom theme + calls to ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini. Useful, sure, but worth $5-10B each? Without users, revenue or even a brand?
julosflb 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Gee101 2y ago
Does it mean that OpenAI is realising that Llms are not going to improve that much so they are trying to expand horizontally.
- anizan 2y ago
  What’s wild is that Microsoft who’s a big investor in OpenAI is competing with a similar product copilot
  - killerstorm 2y ago
    What's wild is that Copilot was literally the first system of this kind and ended up being the worst.
- CharlesW 2y ago
  Not necessarily. When growth is the priority, companies tend to expand along the value chain once they've established a foothold. For OpenAI, an IDE is a natural extension in a market where they're competing with Microsoft. It would be surprising if Anthropic didn't do the same soon.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MJGrzymek 2y ago
I don't get it, surely they can build it for less than $3B, and why would they need the Windsurf brand?
- jemmyw 2y ago
  Maybe ChatGPT told them it was a good idea? Considering the proliferation of these tools there's no way it's worth $3B. This functionality is going to be built into every IDE eventually: vscode just got an agent mode, it might not be great yet but it's only a matter of time until Windsurf is essentially just management tools because there won't be much editor value add available.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    Precisely. For most users, there is hardly value in moving off of VSCode. Granted, if Windsurf can make itself into a VSCode extension, there may be some competitive value to it.
    - filoleg 2y ago
      Isn’t Windsurf a VSCode-based IDE anyway (just like Cursor)? Basing it off the screenshots from their website. I haven’t tried it, but if it is similar to Cursor (which I tried), then it hardly counts as “moving off VSCode”, which was one of the reasons I found switching to it easy. Cannot even really call it a move, if I can just quickly export-import all of my VSCode settings over (including themes and extensions), and they will all pretty much “just work” the exact same way and autoupdate from the exact same extension hub out of the box. Hell, even the UI is pretty much the same, so everything feels familiar, and i can be at least just as productive as usual immediately. One of the biggest wins of VSCode (to me personally) is how functionally interoperable it is with other IDEs that are built off it.
- CharlesW 2y ago
  The "Windsurf" brand has little value in comparison to OpenAI's, but $3B lets them hit the ground running with a proven developer product (better than Cursor IMHO), the team who created it, and a customer base.
seatac76 2y ago
Didn’t think Major M&A’s from OpenAI would start this early.
gman83 2y ago
I use Windsurf, but I only use Claude, it's just worked far better for me than OpenAI's models.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  This week OpenAI released newer models, so it could now use a reassessment. They are: gpt-4.1 family, o3, o4-mini. Users are benefiting from the ongoing competition which hopefully will last all the way to self-improving AGI.
  - debian3 2y ago
    Tried them, sonnet is still where it’s at. Not sure what is the special sauce at Anthropic.
    - nivertech 2y ago
      do u mean that Claude 3.7 Sonnet is still better for coding tasks than gpt-4.1 family, o3, o4-mini? which version of Sonnet? thinking/reasoning or raw/one-shot?
      - consumer451 2y ago
        Not who you responded to, but I use Windsurf pretty much daily. I keep trying new models but for actual code changes I keep going back to Sonnet 3.5. 3.7 can be useful for planning sometimes, but when making code changes it’s really hard for me to keep it from making unnecessary changes.
        OutOfHere 2y ago
        You're soon going to find a rugpull whereby Windsurf will remove all Claude models. This is to be expected considering Windsurf has been bought by OpenAI.
        2y ago
consumer451 2y ago
The only official-ish statement I’ve seen on this: > Hey all this is speculation, probably stemming from earlier in the week when we had the joint livestream with OpenAI. > There’s a ton of interest and attention on Windsurf rn which is awesome, but we are 100 percent focused on building amazing products. > Not sure where this article came from, but we have some amazing updates next week that are gonna blow your socks off https://old.reddit.com/r/windsurf/s/0CR07Qwkf9 https://old.reddit.com/r/windsurf/s/0CR07Qwkf9
throwaway62382 2y ago
Has anyone used both Windsurf and Cursor? Which is preferable?
- impulser_ 2y ago
  IMO, Cursor has a significantly better user experience. Cursor's just seem better designed and cursor's agent mode is better.
film42 2y ago
It's not Adobe Dreamweaver with a chatbot plus a DAG-style job GUI, it's an agentic IDE ecosystem for $3B. But seriously, what am I missing here?
rpicard 2y ago
This would make a lot of sense for both sides I think. Owning the part of the stack that decides where the inference requests go is like Google owning the browser.
catlover76 2y ago
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60 points by mfiguiere 2y ago

minimaxir 2y ago

Sure, why not? If OpenAI wants to have their own social network, might as well have their own IDE too.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mrdependable 2y ago

Didn't Windsurf just come out a few months ago? Wish I could read the article to understand how that number was reached.

minimaxir 2y ago
The parent company Codeium last raised a Series C of $150M at a valuation of $1.25B: https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/29/github-copilot-competitor-codeium-raises-150m-at-a-1-25b-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/08/29/github-copilot-competitor-... That was in August 2024, before the vibe-coding meme hype, so $3B makes sense.
- JLvL 2y ago
  TechCrunch has a more recent article (https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/19/ai-coding-startup-codeium-in-talks-to-raise-at-an-almost-3b-valuation-sources-say/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/19/ai-coding-startup-codeium-...) that has the company valued at $2.85 billion but this was due to them being in talks to raise even more funding this financial quarter.
MasterScrat 2y ago
https://archive.is/N2zPT https://archive.is/N2zPT

rvz 2y ago

Hmm... I thought they would buy Cursor yesterday. [0] Anyway, it always makes sense to buy something much cheaper. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43698819 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43698819

_--__--__ 2y ago
I do not regularly use either, but my impression is that Cursor's users have primarily been using Claude and are largely switching to Gemini, while Windsurf has a lot of existing enterprise contracts that wouldn't even notice an underlying model switch from the proprietary Codeium model to o3 mini or whatever.
- mkozlows 2y ago
  Windsurf users are mostly using Claude too.
ein0p 2y ago
Could be that they're negotiating with both in an attempt to create better price leverage. That's what I would do.

paxys 2y ago

And people say there's no AI bubble... I wonder what Cursor's market value is at this point. Definitey north of $10B right? Their founders and investors would be wise to exit while the AI market is still hot (and the rest is not).

jennaxyz 2y ago
Why not? If it captures enterprise IDE market, it's definitely worthy of the valuation implying the future growth potential. Jetbrains is valued at 7B
eightysixfour 2y ago
I’m putting most of my energy into AI these days but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think there is a bubble, but an overvaluation early doesn’t mean the value isn’t there and won’t come later (see .com crash).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
spaceywilly 2y ago
To play devils advocate, software engineering is currently proving to be a hugely valuable use case for AI, and will almost certainly grow over time. I’m not sure what the market cap for software engineering tooling is, but I assume $5B or even $10B would only represent a tiny fraction of the TAM. Here is one report that projects a $25B market by 2030. It would not take long to recoup their investment if that prediction comes true. https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/03/26/3049705/28124/en/Artificial-Intelligence-Code-Tools-Research-Report-2025-Global-Market-to-Surpass-25-Billion-by-2030-Demand-for-Low-Code-No-Code-Platforms-Spurs-Adoption.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2025/03/26/304970...
- paxys 2y ago
  The software engineering market is one thing, but these editors are all basically VS Code + custom theme + calls to ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini. Useful, sure, but worth $5-10B each? Without users, revenue or even a brand?

julosflb 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Gee101 2y ago

Does it mean that OpenAI is realising that Llms are not going to improve that much so they are trying to expand horizontally.

anizan 2y ago
What’s wild is that Microsoft who’s a big investor in OpenAI is competing with a similar product copilot
- killerstorm 2y ago
  What's wild is that Copilot was literally the first system of this kind and ended up being the worst.
CharlesW 2y ago
Not necessarily. When growth is the priority, companies tend to expand along the value chain once they've established a foothold. For OpenAI, an IDE is a natural extension in a market where they're competing with Microsoft. It would be surprising if Anthropic didn't do the same soon.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

MJGrzymek 2y ago

I don't get it, surely they can build it for less than $3B, and why would they need the Windsurf brand?

jemmyw 2y ago
Maybe ChatGPT told them it was a good idea? Considering the proliferation of these tools there's no way it's worth $3B. This functionality is going to be built into every IDE eventually: vscode just got an agent mode, it might not be great yet but it's only a matter of time until Windsurf is essentially just management tools because there won't be much editor value add available.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  Precisely. For most users, there is hardly value in moving off of VSCode. Granted, if Windsurf can make itself into a VSCode extension, there may be some competitive value to it.
  - filoleg 2y ago
    Isn’t Windsurf a VSCode-based IDE anyway (just like Cursor)? Basing it off the screenshots from their website. I haven’t tried it, but if it is similar to Cursor (which I tried), then it hardly counts as “moving off VSCode”, which was one of the reasons I found switching to it easy. Cannot even really call it a move, if I can just quickly export-import all of my VSCode settings over (including themes and extensions), and they will all pretty much “just work” the exact same way and autoupdate from the exact same extension hub out of the box. Hell, even the UI is pretty much the same, so everything feels familiar, and i can be at least just as productive as usual immediately. One of the biggest wins of VSCode (to me personally) is how functionally interoperable it is with other IDEs that are built off it.
CharlesW 2y ago
The "Windsurf" brand has little value in comparison to OpenAI's, but $3B lets them hit the ground running with a proven developer product (better than Cursor IMHO), the team who created it, and a customer base.

seatac76 2y ago

Didn’t think Major M&A’s from OpenAI would start this early.

gman83 2y ago

I use Windsurf, but I only use Claude, it's just worked far better for me than OpenAI's models.

OutOfHere 2y ago
This week OpenAI released newer models, so it could now use a reassessment. They are: gpt-4.1 family, o3, o4-mini. Users are benefiting from the ongoing competition which hopefully will last all the way to self-improving AGI.
- debian3 2y ago
  Tried them, sonnet is still where it’s at. Not sure what is the special sauce at Anthropic.
  - nivertech 2y ago
    do u mean that Claude 3.7 Sonnet is still better for coding tasks than gpt-4.1 family, o3, o4-mini? which version of Sonnet? thinking/reasoning or raw/one-shot?
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Not who you responded to, but I use Windsurf pretty much daily. I keep trying new models but for actual code changes I keep going back to Sonnet 3.5. 3.7 can be useful for planning sometimes, but when making code changes it’s really hard for me to keep it from making unnecessary changes.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        You're soon going to find a rugpull whereby Windsurf will remove all Claude models. This is to be expected considering Windsurf has been bought by OpenAI.
        2y ago

consumer451 2y ago

The only official-ish statement I’ve seen on this: > Hey all this is speculation, probably stemming from earlier in the week when we had the joint livestream with OpenAI. > There’s a ton of interest and attention on Windsurf rn which is awesome, but we are 100 percent focused on building amazing products. > Not sure where this article came from, but we have some amazing updates next week that are gonna blow your socks off https://old.reddit.com/r/windsurf/s/0CR07Qwkf9 https://old.reddit.com/r/windsurf/s/0CR07Qwkf9

throwaway62382 2y ago

Has anyone used both Windsurf and Cursor? Which is preferable?

impulser_ 2y ago
IMO, Cursor has a significantly better user experience. Cursor's just seem better designed and cursor's agent mode is better.

film42 2y ago

It's not Adobe Dreamweaver with a chatbot plus a DAG-style job GUI, it's an agentic IDE ecosystem for $3B. But seriously, what am I missing here?

rpicard 2y ago

This would make a lot of sense for both sides I think. Owning the part of the stack that decides where the inference requests go is like Google owning the browser.

catlover76 2y ago

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