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This kind of behavior is no longer surprising, from the least transparent White House in living memory.

by Calamitous 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
lostlogin 14y ago
It is worse than under Bush Jr?
- michaelt 14y ago
  Under Bush it didn't seem so bad because our expectations were so low.
- gyardley 14y ago
  Objectively, perhaps slightly. It's not hard to find quotes describing this administration as the worst yet at responding to Freedom of Information Act requests. For example: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html Subjectively, it feels much worse - because the administration ran on a platform of transparency and openness, which they failed to deliver on: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOpenGovernment http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOp...
- nateabele 14y ago
  By an objective tally of bullshit occurring under each administration's watch, I think we can safely say that, yes, it is. At least W didn't try to pretend he was something he wasn't.
- civilunrest 14y ago
  Bush turned us in a bad direction, Obama stepped on the gas. The Bush policies that were most detrimental to the long-term health of the US have been embraced and championed by Obama. Namely, the suspension of habeus corpus. Obama and Bush both abduct people they don't like and ship them to prisons in war zones and strip them of all their civil liberties. Obama, in section 1012 of NDAA 2012, signed into law the right of the US military to detain US citizens indefinitely, without trial. Of course there are lawsuits and challenges to NDAA 2012, and states have signed their own legislation into place that says, "no, really, the constitution and bill of rights mean something still". But that stuff isn't stopping the US from abducting and imprisoning its own citizens. I didn't say anything about the transparency, because I got worked up. Oh, well.
  - jonmrodriguez 14y ago
    Section 1021, not 1012: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#Indefinite_detention_without_trial:_Section_1021 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_...
    - civilunrest 14y ago
      Thanks. I'm a notorious digit and letter swapper, and should have copy-pasted that. (It's been the source of some of my hardest to chase bugs when I'm programming in a dynamic language without strict compile time checks, they are hard mistakes for me to see).
  - lostlogin 14y ago
    It's funny you would say that. I got a distinct 'uh oh' feeling when Gitmo wasn't promptly closed. However New Zealand perspectives on these things tend to differ from US views. I assume you are American
slurgfest 14y ago
I guess you weren't alive during the Reagan administration. (Iran-Contra? I don't recall.) Or the GWB administration...
- briandear 14y ago
  Big difference though, Obama promised the most transparent administration in history. Admittedly, it's a low bar, but Fast and Furious documents, press restrictions, including a prohibition on live tweeting anything Biden says. Obfuscation of the Solyndra scandal.. it goes on and on. The Fast and Furious scandal is the big one though. Allowing gun walking in order to then use the resultant violence to make the case for anti-gun legislation, resulting in the death of Brian Terry as well as hundreds of Mexicans. In Watergate all you had was a burglary, with this, people were killed. And yet, those documents are covered by Executive Privilege even though the President denied knowing anything about it? His lack of press conferences, restrictions on press at campaign events, colluding with the media to squash stories while leaking others. We can debate policy all day long, but there's really no way anyone can argue that Obama's administration is the most transparent in history. Even Obama himself is obscured. Every presidential candidate has released college transcripts -- except Obama. There are all sorts of questions about his past that remain unanswered, yet he claims to be transparent? We knew George Bush's elementary school grades, the cars he owned and drugs he did -- yet with Obama there are so many questions that he refuses to address both in his personal history and current White House administration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    The original claim of the poster was that the Obama Administration is the least transparent administration in history, not that Obama claims to have the most transparent administration in history.
    - Calamitous 14y ago
      Actually, if you read my original post, I stated that it was the least transparent _in living memory._ You are welcome to take issue with what I said, but I'll thank you to stop trying to make my assertion far more absolutist than it is.

This kind of behavior is no longer surprising, from the least transparent White House in living memory.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

lostlogin 14y ago

It is worse than under Bush Jr?

michaelt 14y ago
Under Bush it didn't seem so bad because our expectations were so low.
gyardley 14y ago
Objectively, perhaps slightly. It's not hard to find quotes describing this administration as the worst yet at responding to Freedom of Information Act requests. For example: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html Subjectively, it feels much worse - because the administration ran on a platform of transparency and openness, which they failed to deliver on: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOpenGovernment http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOp...
nateabele 14y ago
By an objective tally of bullshit occurring under each administration's watch, I think we can safely say that, yes, it is. At least W didn't try to pretend he was something he wasn't.
civilunrest 14y ago
Bush turned us in a bad direction, Obama stepped on the gas. The Bush policies that were most detrimental to the long-term health of the US have been embraced and championed by Obama. Namely, the suspension of habeus corpus. Obama and Bush both abduct people they don't like and ship them to prisons in war zones and strip them of all their civil liberties. Obama, in section 1012 of NDAA 2012, signed into law the right of the US military to detain US citizens indefinitely, without trial. Of course there are lawsuits and challenges to NDAA 2012, and states have signed their own legislation into place that says, "no, really, the constitution and bill of rights mean something still". But that stuff isn't stopping the US from abducting and imprisoning its own citizens. I didn't say anything about the transparency, because I got worked up. Oh, well.
- jonmrodriguez 14y ago
  Section 1021, not 1012: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#Indefinite_detention_without_trial:_Section_1021 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_...
  - civilunrest 14y ago
    Thanks. I'm a notorious digit and letter swapper, and should have copy-pasted that. (It's been the source of some of my hardest to chase bugs when I'm programming in a dynamic language without strict compile time checks, they are hard mistakes for me to see).
- lostlogin 14y ago
  It's funny you would say that. I got a distinct 'uh oh' feeling when Gitmo wasn't promptly closed. However New Zealand perspectives on these things tend to differ from US views. I assume you are American

slurgfest 14y ago

I guess you weren't alive during the Reagan administration. (Iran-Contra? I don't recall.) Or the GWB administration...

briandear 14y ago
Big difference though, Obama promised the most transparent administration in history. Admittedly, it's a low bar, but Fast and Furious documents, press restrictions, including a prohibition on live tweeting anything Biden says. Obfuscation of the Solyndra scandal.. it goes on and on. The Fast and Furious scandal is the big one though. Allowing gun walking in order to then use the resultant violence to make the case for anti-gun legislation, resulting in the death of Brian Terry as well as hundreds of Mexicans. In Watergate all you had was a burglary, with this, people were killed. And yet, those documents are covered by Executive Privilege even though the President denied knowing anything about it? His lack of press conferences, restrictions on press at campaign events, colluding with the media to squash stories while leaking others. We can debate policy all day long, but there's really no way anyone can argue that Obama's administration is the most transparent in history. Even Obama himself is obscured. Every presidential candidate has released college transcripts -- except Obama. There are all sorts of questions about his past that remain unanswered, yet he claims to be transparent? We knew George Bush's elementary school grades, the cars he owned and drugs he did -- yet with Obama there are so many questions that he refuses to address both in his personal history and current White House administration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXWTdTnhebs
- chris_wot 14y ago
  The original claim of the poster was that the Obama Administration is the least transparent administration in history, not that Obama claims to have the most transparent administration in history.
  - Calamitous 14y ago
    Actually, if you read my original post, I stated that it was the least transparent _in living memory._ You are welcome to take issue with what I said, but I'll thank you to stop trying to make my assertion far more absolutist than it is.