4 ms·

Pentium 4, GeForce FX 5800, PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, MacBook 20??-2019: "First time?"

TMWNN 2y ago
mfw you forget AMD Thunderbird Sometimes the solution is worse than the problem. My favorite example is the TRS-80 Model II and its descendants, with the combination of the fan and disk drives so loud that users experience physical discomfort. <https://archive.org/details/80-microcomputing-magazine-1983-05/page/n131/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/80-microcomputing-magazine-1983-...>
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Modern computers should come with built in piezo, haptic and rumble motors that can emulate HDD, FDD and CD-ROM sounds whenever you start a game or app. Change my mind. - Inner voice: "You don't miss the old PC noises, you just miss those times". - Shut up!
  - TMWNN 2y ago
    <https://tryklack.com/ https://tryklack.com/> But this only simulates keyboard and mouse click sounds. In any case, you wrote "whenever you start a game or app" (my emphasis). The Model II's fan and drive noises are 100% present from start to finish, with the combination enough to drive users insane (or, at least, not want to use the $5-10,000 computer).
    - bitwize 2y ago
      I kind of miss the bass drop the Model 16's "Thinline" drives did when they were accessed. That was a cool sound.
- bitwize 2y ago
  The Model II was a loud beast. Its floppy drive drew directly from mains power, not a DC rail off the power supply, and spun all the time. The heads engaged via a solenoid that was so powerful it made a loud "thunk" sound and actually changed the size of the display on the built-in CRT. The Model 12 and 16 improved on the design, sporting Tandon "Thinline" 8" drives that ran on DC and spun down when not in use, leaving fan noise that was quite tolerable.
the__alchemist 2y ago
This checks out. If y'all haven't specced a modern PC: Coolers for GPU and CPU are huge, watercooling is now officially recommended for new CPUs, and cases are ventilated on all sides. Disk bays are moved out of the main chamber to improve airflow. Fans everywhere. Front panels surface areas are completely covered in fans.
- tempodox 2y ago
  Will there be an official “cleared for frying eggs” badge? We'll have to do something with all that heat.
- arcanemachiner 2y ago
  > watercooling is now officially recommended for new CPUs First I'm hearing of this. Last I checked, air coolers had basically reached parity with any lower-end water cooled setup.
  - the__alchemist 2y ago
    I was surprised too, but that's from the AMD label!
  - giantg2 2y ago
    I built a PC last year and saw a bunch of the CPUs were recommending water cooling. There were a few high end air coolers that were compatible. I went with an AIO water cooler. It was cheap and easy. It should give as good or better temperature control as the air coolers that are 5x more expensive. My guess is manufacturers don't want to tell people they should air cool if it requires listing specific models. It's easy to just say they recommend water cooling since basically all water coolers will provide adequate performance.
    - mjevans 2y ago
      I hope you're correct. I'm in the middle of building a replacement PC (it's been like 10 years) and went with a ~80 USD air cooler that's got two fans and a bunch of heat pipes. The case is also a consideration, I selected one that can hold a BUNCH of fans and intend to have them all always push at least a little air through, more as it gets warmer. In my case two fans on the CPU, pointing towards the rear exhaust fan to suck, and 6 fans 120mm or larger pushing air through otherwise, will _hopefully_ remain sufficient.
rayiner 2y ago
The most power hungry P4 didn’t top 115W.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Which was huge in the era when CPUs didn't underclock themselves at idle to save power and coolers looked like this: https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-air-cooler-series-a73/p/13C-000X-00010 https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-air-cooler-series-a73/p... Some coolers today still look like that but they're on chips drawing 35W or so while idling at <2W.
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  The die was much smaller…
  - formerly_proven 2y ago
    Die size: 135mm² A current AMD CCD is ~70mm² and can drop around 120 W or so on that area. E.g. the 9700X has one CCD and up to a 142W PPT, 20 W goes to the IOD, ~120 into the CCD. edit: (1) this account/IP-range is limited to a handful of comments per day so I cannot reply directly, having exhausted my allotment of HN comments for today (2) I do not understand what you take offense at, because I did not "change [my] original argument" - you claimed, a P4 die is much smaller, I gave a counter example, and made the example more specific in response to your comment (by adding the "E.g. ..." bit with an example of a SKU and how the power would approximately split up).
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - BoredPositron 2y ago
      The tdp is for the whole cpu with multiple ccds and iod…
      - BoredPositron 2y ago
gkhartman 2y ago
Hardest to cool cpu I've ever owned was an AMD Athlon 3200+. I remember moving to P4, and life got a lot easier. It still ran very hot, but it could do so without frequent crashing. This was before the giant coolers that we have today were common place. I was far too afraid of water cooling back then.

mfw you forget AMD Thunderbird Sometimes the solution is worse than the problem. My favorite example is the TRS-80 Model II and its descendants, with the combination of the fan and disk drives so loud that users experience physical discomfort. <https://archive.org/details/80-microcomputing-magazine-1983-05/page/n131/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/80-microcomputing-magazine-1983-...>

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
Modern computers should come with built in piezo, haptic and rumble motors that can emulate HDD, FDD and CD-ROM sounds whenever you start a game or app. Change my mind. - Inner voice: "You don't miss the old PC noises, you just miss those times". - Shut up!
- TMWNN 2y ago
  <https://tryklack.com/ https://tryklack.com/> But this only simulates keyboard and mouse click sounds. In any case, you wrote "whenever you start a game or app" (my emphasis). The Model II's fan and drive noises are 100% present from start to finish, with the combination enough to drive users insane (or, at least, not want to use the $5-10,000 computer).
  - bitwize 2y ago
    I kind of miss the bass drop the Model 16's "Thinline" drives did when they were accessed. That was a cool sound.
bitwize 2y ago
The Model II was a loud beast. Its floppy drive drew directly from mains power, not a DC rail off the power supply, and spun all the time. The heads engaged via a solenoid that was so powerful it made a loud "thunk" sound and actually changed the size of the display on the built-in CRT. The Model 12 and 16 improved on the design, sporting Tandon "Thinline" 8" drives that ran on DC and spun down when not in use, leaving fan noise that was quite tolerable.

the__alchemist 2y ago

This checks out. If y'all haven't specced a modern PC: Coolers for GPU and CPU are huge, watercooling is now officially recommended for new CPUs, and cases are ventilated on all sides. Disk bays are moved out of the main chamber to improve airflow. Fans everywhere. Front panels surface areas are completely covered in fans.

tempodox 2y ago
Will there be an official “cleared for frying eggs” badge? We'll have to do something with all that heat.
arcanemachiner 2y ago
> watercooling is now officially recommended for new CPUs First I'm hearing of this. Last I checked, air coolers had basically reached parity with any lower-end water cooled setup.
- the__alchemist 2y ago
  I was surprised too, but that's from the AMD label!
- giantg2 2y ago
  I built a PC last year and saw a bunch of the CPUs were recommending water cooling. There were a few high end air coolers that were compatible. I went with an AIO water cooler. It was cheap and easy. It should give as good or better temperature control as the air coolers that are 5x more expensive. My guess is manufacturers don't want to tell people they should air cool if it requires listing specific models. It's easy to just say they recommend water cooling since basically all water coolers will provide adequate performance.
  - mjevans 2y ago
    I hope you're correct. I'm in the middle of building a replacement PC (it's been like 10 years) and went with a ~80 USD air cooler that's got two fans and a bunch of heat pipes. The case is also a consideration, I selected one that can hold a BUNCH of fans and intend to have them all always push at least a little air through, more as it gets warmer. In my case two fans on the CPU, pointing towards the rear exhaust fan to suck, and 6 fans 120mm or larger pushing air through otherwise, will _hopefully_ remain sufficient.

rayiner 2y ago

The most power hungry P4 didn’t top 115W.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
Which was huge in the era when CPUs didn't underclock themselves at idle to save power and coolers looked like this: https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-air-cooler-series-a73/p/13C-000X-00010 https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-air-cooler-series-a73/p... Some coolers today still look like that but they're on chips drawing 35W or so while idling at <2W.
BoredPositron 2y ago
The die was much smaller…
- formerly_proven 2y ago
  Die size: 135mm² A current AMD CCD is ~70mm² and can drop around 120 W or so on that area. E.g. the 9700X has one CCD and up to a 142W PPT, 20 W goes to the IOD, ~120 into the CCD. edit: (1) this account/IP-range is limited to a handful of comments per day so I cannot reply directly, having exhausted my allotment of HN comments for today (2) I do not understand what you take offense at, because I did not "change [my] original argument" - you claimed, a P4 die is much smaller, I gave a counter example, and made the example more specific in response to your comment (by adding the "E.g. ..." bit with an example of a SKU and how the power would approximately split up).
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    The tdp is for the whole cpu with multiple ccds and iod…
    - BoredPositron 2y ago

gkhartman 2y ago

Hardest to cool cpu I've ever owned was an AMD Athlon 3200+. I remember moving to P4, and life got a lot easier. It still ran very hot, but it could do so without frequent crashing. This was before the giant coolers that we have today were common place. I was far too afraid of water cooling back then.