5 ms·

This is one of those things that I doubt changes anything, and I suspect only satisfies folks desire to wag their finger at other folks. Folks will give one re

by duxup 2y ago

This is one of those things that I doubt changes anything, and I suspect only satisfies folks desire to wag their finger at other folks. Folks will give one reason for it, but I think it's just finger wagging / getting in other people's business in the end.

ty6853 2y ago
Would make more sense to shit-can the program and just hand them cash. Any junkies or land-whales will kill themselves faster and relieve the taxpayers of further burden, and the people that need it have better understanding of their own needs than some benefits clerk who spends 5 minutes with them twice a year. It would be a win-win for literally everyone.
- duxup 2y ago
  I lived in a crappy part of town when I was young. Local homeless guy I recognized, I'd give him a few bucks once in a while. I didn't know him, but everyone recognized him. Someone mentioned to me "he's just gonna spend it on booze" (there wasn't really any evidence for that but they assumed). A friend of mine made an insightful comment "Considering his life so far, maybe he actually could use a beer more than us." (We were going to a local bar) Someone wants some skittles or something, fine by me. The idea that we should tell someone they can't have a treat because they're poor, I agree that seems cruel. Folks who really want to get those folks help / get them out of the system, they're not sweating skittles. My wife works in the school system and one of the poorer kids told her that sometimes their aunt and uncle come over and take their food. THAT is a problem, not skittles.
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    For me it’s less about what they pick and more about not funneling more tax payer money to PepsiCo for food like products that kill people. If you are going to micro manage the program cut out all the toxic shit.
    - hmcq6 2y ago
      Chiquita also kills people
      - GuestFAUniverse 2y ago
        Oh, the lovely United Fruits Company? Who dares to have a critical view into a proper history book? Everybody better read "Fahrenheit 451" too, as long as the Bro-lords don't go after it (again).
  - a_e_k 2y ago
    There's a famous anecdote about C.S. Lewis saying much the same thing: > On the way to an Inklings meeting, he gave some money to a street beggar, and I made the usual objection: "Won't he just spend it on drink?" > Lewis answered, "Yes, but if I kept it, so would I." https://web.archive.org/web/20210717220213/https://www.ncronline.org/news/media/cs-lewis-couldnt-touch-anything-without-illuminating-it https://web.archive.org/web/20210717220213/https://www.ncron...
- kalleboo 2y ago
  > Would make more sense to shit-can the program and just hand them cash Is there anywhere else in the world that has a similar program to SNAP that micro-manages what kind of things people can buy? Everywhere else I'm familiar with just gives people in need cash that they can spend however they want. The closest thing I can think of is food banks (which also seems much more rare elsewhere, only recently popping up in the UK after their austerity programs)
  - garfield_light 2y ago
    JUNAEB in Chile is pretty much SNAP for college students. Originally you could buy beer or pretty much anything in the supermarket, it got limited strictly to food and then items with two or less warning labels [0]. A big difference is intention, in the US the focus is "anti-sin" and avoiding joy for undesirables. Many protein bars or "natural" juices are just morally aesthetic candy and soda. The labeling in Chile is data driven* (i.e, It's pretty much an efficient way to read the nutrition info, it killed vitamin water) so the objective is closer to public health. I would also think that straight cash is preferable, the limitations are fine for complementary benefits of college students, not for actual families. Diapers and lentils are a better use of government money. Anyways if people want to buy drugs, converting food items to cash is simple. - https://www.theexamination.org/articles/a-decade-after-its-pioneering-food-law-where-does-chile-s-obesity-crisis-stand https://www.theexamination.org/articles/a-decade-after-its-p...
- asacrowflies 2y ago
  [flagged]
TimorousBestie 2y ago
It is petty cruelty by folks who wrongly believe they are incapable of one day being poor and destitute.
- rayiner 2y ago
  No. The cruelty is pretending that everyone has equal capacity to make life choices and that society has no role in encouraging people to make good decisions.
  - TimorousBestie 2y ago
    Who is pretending these straw men? It’s not me. I don’t agree with either of those positions.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      If so, then will you concede that the policy (ban) under discussion will tend to have beneficial effects that might outweigh the insulting effect that you noted in your first comment?
  - watwut 2y ago
    There ia about zero effort put into encouraging good decisions, but a lot of gleeful activity into making their lives as uncomfortable as possible. Systematically again and again. At this point, it just make bo sense to pretend anything else. The very same people throw massive fit at any measure that could make their targets life's better.
    - ifyoubuildit 2y ago
      You know what's uncomfortable (and also expensive)? Being obese and having rotting teeth.
      - hmcq6 2y ago
        Drinking soda has almost nothing to do with rotting teeth. Dentists are now more concerned about the damage electrolyte drinks cause. Should we take away Gatorade too?

by duxup 2y ago

ty6853 2y ago

Would make more sense to shit-can the program and just hand them cash. Any junkies or land-whales will kill themselves faster and relieve the taxpayers of further burden, and the people that need it have better understanding of their own needs than some benefits clerk who spends 5 minutes with them twice a year. It would be a win-win for literally everyone.

duxup 2y ago
I lived in a crappy part of town when I was young. Local homeless guy I recognized, I'd give him a few bucks once in a while. I didn't know him, but everyone recognized him. Someone mentioned to me "he's just gonna spend it on booze" (there wasn't really any evidence for that but they assumed). A friend of mine made an insightful comment "Considering his life so far, maybe he actually could use a beer more than us." (We were going to a local bar) Someone wants some skittles or something, fine by me. The idea that we should tell someone they can't have a treat because they're poor, I agree that seems cruel. Folks who really want to get those folks help / get them out of the system, they're not sweating skittles. My wife works in the school system and one of the poorer kids told her that sometimes their aunt and uncle come over and take their food. THAT is a problem, not skittles.
- nothercastle 2y ago
  For me it’s less about what they pick and more about not funneling more tax payer money to PepsiCo for food like products that kill people. If you are going to micro manage the program cut out all the toxic shit.
  - hmcq6 2y ago
    Chiquita also kills people
    - GuestFAUniverse 2y ago
      Oh, the lovely United Fruits Company? Who dares to have a critical view into a proper history book? Everybody better read "Fahrenheit 451" too, as long as the Bro-lords don't go after it (again).
- a_e_k 2y ago
  There's a famous anecdote about C.S. Lewis saying much the same thing: > On the way to an Inklings meeting, he gave some money to a street beggar, and I made the usual objection: "Won't he just spend it on drink?" > Lewis answered, "Yes, but if I kept it, so would I." https://web.archive.org/web/20210717220213/https://www.ncronline.org/news/media/cs-lewis-couldnt-touch-anything-without-illuminating-it https://web.archive.org/web/20210717220213/https://www.ncron...
kalleboo 2y ago
> Would make more sense to shit-can the program and just hand them cash Is there anywhere else in the world that has a similar program to SNAP that micro-manages what kind of things people can buy? Everywhere else I'm familiar with just gives people in need cash that they can spend however they want. The closest thing I can think of is food banks (which also seems much more rare elsewhere, only recently popping up in the UK after their austerity programs)
- garfield_light 2y ago
  JUNAEB in Chile is pretty much SNAP for college students. Originally you could buy beer or pretty much anything in the supermarket, it got limited strictly to food and then items with two or less warning labels [0]. A big difference is intention, in the US the focus is "anti-sin" and avoiding joy for undesirables. Many protein bars or "natural" juices are just morally aesthetic candy and soda. The labeling in Chile is data driven* (i.e, It's pretty much an efficient way to read the nutrition info, it killed vitamin water) so the objective is closer to public health. I would also think that straight cash is preferable, the limitations are fine for complementary benefits of college students, not for actual families. Diapers and lentils are a better use of government money. Anyways if people want to buy drugs, converting food items to cash is simple. - https://www.theexamination.org/articles/a-decade-after-its-pioneering-food-law-where-does-chile-s-obesity-crisis-stand https://www.theexamination.org/articles/a-decade-after-its-p...
asacrowflies 2y ago
[flagged]

TimorousBestie 2y ago

It is petty cruelty by folks who wrongly believe they are incapable of one day being poor and destitute.

rayiner 2y ago
No. The cruelty is pretending that everyone has equal capacity to make life choices and that society has no role in encouraging people to make good decisions.
- TimorousBestie 2y ago
  Who is pretending these straw men? It’s not me. I don’t agree with either of those positions.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    If so, then will you concede that the policy (ban) under discussion will tend to have beneficial effects that might outweigh the insulting effect that you noted in your first comment?
- watwut 2y ago
  There ia about zero effort put into encouraging good decisions, but a lot of gleeful activity into making their lives as uncomfortable as possible. Systematically again and again. At this point, it just make bo sense to pretend anything else. The very same people throw massive fit at any measure that could make their targets life's better.
  - ifyoubuildit 2y ago
    You know what's uncomfortable (and also expensive)? Being obese and having rotting teeth.
    - hmcq6 2y ago
      Drinking soda has almost nothing to do with rotting teeth. Dentists are now more concerned about the damage electrolyte drinks cause. Should we take away Gatorade too?