5 ms·

Cursor: a VS Code extension that got itself valued at $10bn.

by jen729w 2y ago

merb 2y ago
It’s basically a vscode fork that illegally uses official extensions, that were not allowed to be used in forks.
- falcor84 2y ago
  Does "it" use the official extensions, or does it only allow "you" the user to use them?
  - merb 2y ago
    First of all, their docs link to the market place of ms: https://www.cursor.com/how-to-install-extension https://www.cursor.com/how-to-install-extension Which is basically an article to use an extension in a way that’s basically forbidden use. If that was not bad enough the editor also told you to install certain extensions if certain file extensions were used that were also against the tos of the extension. And basically cursor can just be using the vsix marketplace from eclipse, which does not contain restricted extensions. What they do is at least shady. And yes I’m not a fan of the fact that Microsoft does this, even worse they closed the source (or some parts of it) of some extensions as well, which is also a bad move (but their right)
    - MiddleEndian 2y ago
      I don't see a problem with this. If it's an extension on my machine, why do I care about the TOS?
      - int_19h 2y ago
        The extensions themselves have licenses that prohibit their use with anything other than VSCode. (You should keep this in mind next time someone tells you that VSCode is "open source", by the way. The core IDE is, sure, but if you need to do e.g. Python or C++, the official Microsoft extensions involved all have these kinds of clauses in them.)
        MiddleEndian 2y ago
        I don't use VSCode (or Cursor in this case (which I do think was malicious in the way it blindly hallucinated a policy for a paying customer)); I use vim or notepad++ depending on my mood. I just don't have a problem with people "violating" Terms of Service or End User License Agreements and am not really convinced there's a legal argument there either.
        int_19h 2y ago
        I personally don't have a problem with that either, but as far as legalities go, EULAs are legally binding in US.
        MiddleEndian 2y ago
        Have EULAs been tested in court? For distribution licenses, I would assume they have. Can't put GPL software in your closed source code, can't just download Photoshop and copy it and give it out, etc. And that makes sense and you have some reasonable path to damage/penalties (GPL → your software is now open source, Photoshop → fines or whatever) But if you download some free piece of software and use it with some other piece of free piece software even though they say "please don't" in the EULA, what could the criminal or civil penalties possibly be?
        int_19h 2y ago
        Yes, there were some cases that confirmed the validity of "clickwrap", unfortunately: https://www.elgaronline.com/edcollchap/edcoll/9781783479917/9781783479917.00010.xml https://www.elgaronline.com/edcollchap/edcoll/9781783479917/... I don't know what the hypothetical penalty would be for mere use contrary to EULA, though. It would be breach of contract, and presumably the court would determine actual damages, but I don't know what cost basis there would be if the software in question was distributed freely. However, fine or no fine, I would expect the court to order the defendant to cease using software in violation of EULA, and at that point further use would be contempt of court, no?
      - merb 2y ago
        Its different if you do it. Or if a public company is actively encouraging you.
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calebkaiser 2y ago
The 1 million users + $200 million in revenue probably had something to do with the valuation.
- rvz 2y ago
  Slack was a similar thing. IPO'd at 10 million users with 400M in revenue but got destroyed by Microsoft thanks to Teams. Cursor is at a worse position and at greater risk of ending up like Slack very quickly and Microsoft will do the exact same thing they did to Slack. This time by extinguishing (EEE) them by racing prices of VSCode + Copilot close to zero, until it is free. The best thing Cursor should do is for OpenAI to buy them at a $10B valuation.
  - falcor84 2y ago
    Wait, what?! Slack got destroyed by Teams? You seem to be living a few parallel universes away from the one I'm in.
    - charcircuit 2y ago
      Teams has 8 times the monthly active users.
      - mh- 2y ago
        Microsoft pushed Teams onto my personal Windows PC in a recent update, as a startup item. And, as far as I could tell, automatically logged me in to my Microsoft account on it. I'd be very skeptical of their MAU claims.
    - parliament32 2y ago
      Yes, "destroyed" is apt. See the graph under "Slack vs Microsoft Teams: Users" here: https://www.businessofapps.com/data/slack-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/slack-statistics/
      - 2y ago

Cursor: a VS Code extension that got itself valued at $10bn.

merb 2y ago

It’s basically a vscode fork that illegally uses official extensions, that were not allowed to be used in forks.

falcor84 2y ago
Does "it" use the official extensions, or does it only allow "you" the user to use them?
- merb 2y ago
  First of all, their docs link to the market place of ms: https://www.cursor.com/how-to-install-extension https://www.cursor.com/how-to-install-extension Which is basically an article to use an extension in a way that’s basically forbidden use. If that was not bad enough the editor also told you to install certain extensions if certain file extensions were used that were also against the tos of the extension. And basically cursor can just be using the vsix marketplace from eclipse, which does not contain restricted extensions. What they do is at least shady. And yes I’m not a fan of the fact that Microsoft does this, even worse they closed the source (or some parts of it) of some extensions as well, which is also a bad move (but their right)
  - MiddleEndian 2y ago
    I don't see a problem with this. If it's an extension on my machine, why do I care about the TOS?
    - int_19h 2y ago
      The extensions themselves have licenses that prohibit their use with anything other than VSCode. (You should keep this in mind next time someone tells you that VSCode is "open source", by the way. The core IDE is, sure, but if you need to do e.g. Python or C++, the official Microsoft extensions involved all have these kinds of clauses in them.)
      - MiddleEndian 2y ago
        I don't use VSCode (or Cursor in this case (which I do think was malicious in the way it blindly hallucinated a policy for a paying customer)); I use vim or notepad++ depending on my mood. I just don't have a problem with people "violating" Terms of Service or End User License Agreements and am not really convinced there's a legal argument there either.
        int_19h 2y ago
        I personally don't have a problem with that either, but as far as legalities go, EULAs are legally binding in US.
        MiddleEndian 2y ago
        Have EULAs been tested in court? For distribution licenses, I would assume they have. Can't put GPL software in your closed source code, can't just download Photoshop and copy it and give it out, etc. And that makes sense and you have some reasonable path to damage/penalties (GPL → your software is now open source, Photoshop → fines or whatever) But if you download some free piece of software and use it with some other piece of free piece software even though they say "please don't" in the EULA, what could the criminal or civil penalties possibly be?
        int_19h 2y ago
        Yes, there were some cases that confirmed the validity of "clickwrap", unfortunately: https://www.elgaronline.com/edcollchap/edcoll/9781783479917/9781783479917.00010.xml https://www.elgaronline.com/edcollchap/edcoll/9781783479917/... I don't know what the hypothetical penalty would be for mere use contrary to EULA, though. It would be breach of contract, and presumably the court would determine actual damages, but I don't know what cost basis there would be if the software in question was distributed freely. However, fine or no fine, I would expect the court to order the defendant to cease using software in violation of EULA, and at that point further use would be contempt of court, no?
    - merb 2y ago
      Its different if you do it. Or if a public company is actively encouraging you.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

calebkaiser 2y ago

The 1 million users + $200 million in revenue probably had something to do with the valuation.

rvz 2y ago
Slack was a similar thing. IPO'd at 10 million users with 400M in revenue but got destroyed by Microsoft thanks to Teams. Cursor is at a worse position and at greater risk of ending up like Slack very quickly and Microsoft will do the exact same thing they did to Slack. This time by extinguishing (EEE) them by racing prices of VSCode + Copilot close to zero, until it is free. The best thing Cursor should do is for OpenAI to buy them at a $10B valuation.
- falcor84 2y ago
  Wait, what?! Slack got destroyed by Teams? You seem to be living a few parallel universes away from the one I'm in.
  - charcircuit 2y ago
    Teams has 8 times the monthly active users.
    - mh- 2y ago
      Microsoft pushed Teams onto my personal Windows PC in a recent update, as a startup item. And, as far as I could tell, automatically logged me in to my Microsoft account on it. I'd be very skeptical of their MAU claims.
  - parliament32 2y ago
    Yes, "destroyed" is apt. See the graph under "Slack vs Microsoft Teams: Users" here: https://www.businessofapps.com/data/slack-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/slack-statistics/
    - 2y ago