4 ms·

You are acting as if the world is binary and either the previous status quo was justified or Trump's actions are justified, neither of which have to be the case

You are acting as if the world is binary and either the previous status quo was justified or Trump's actions are justified, neither of which have to be the case.

kombine 2y ago
Previous status quo was absolutely unjustified, therefore brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson Do you have an example? Israel-Palestine is a nuanced ground truth that has been ridiculously oversimplified in American discourse. "Pro Israel" covers folks who want to kill every Palestinian and annex their land to those who just don't want kids slaughtered at raves. "Pro Palestine" covers people who want the basic human dignity of an ancient people respected, through those who want to destroy Israel as a nation-state, all the way over to full-blown racists who hate Jews (or anyone with European heritage).
  - kombine 2y ago
    > Do you have an example? If you lived under the rock the entire 2024, here is one: https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDomiaW7jiiXsorSj3ib11aAr9LmmZ6bQ6WH7Am12KnARoXwNpgSYTRFkfWKhTl https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDom... > the 20-year-old Israeli who’s now in notoriously antisemitic Malmö, Sweden It's because of Aaronson and others that the original meaning of antisemitism almost entirely lost its meaning. They perverted it to suit their political agenda.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Do you have an example of student being called an antisemite by Aaronson?
      - kombine 2y ago
        People like Aaronson are smart enough not to directly say that. Here is a Berkeley professor likening student protests to Kristallnacht: https://www.facebook.com/alyosha.efros/posts/pfbid0UapTQuH6pmRDXwwLvJLxM6Cdpu2kRjpBFNKiqCPEVjnVTDvgkoxbc67MQb9bAw8Ml https://www.facebook.com/alyosha.efros/posts/pfbid0UapTQuH6p... And completely forgetting to mention there is a Jewish block literally in the photo they took themselves. Obviously, they never mention the actual violence by the Zionist counter-protesters, which in my experience far exceeds that of the pro-Palestinian proteseters.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > People like Aaronson are smart enough not to directly say that Doesn't that completely undermine the claim that students were being slandered as anti-Semites? Like, yes, I'd prefer people thought nice things all the time. But if they're thinking something I consider mean, I'm happier with them keeping it to themselves. And if they won't, I prefer they call out a group versus attacking random individuals within it for being a member of that group.
      - user982 2y ago
        Sure, here's his characterization of the protesting students as of two weeks ago (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8754 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8754): "Leftist Students and Faculty: We’d sooner burn universities to the ground than allow them to remain safe for the hated Zionist Jews, the baby-killing demons of the earth. We’ll disrupt their classes, bar them from student activities, smash their Hillel centers, take over campus buildings and quads, and chant for Hezbollah and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades to eradicate them like vermin. We’ll do all this because we’ve so thoroughly learned the lessons of the Holocaust." Here are Scott Aaronson's claims about Trump deportees (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8758 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8758): "It’s important to add: from what I know, some of the people being detained and deported are genuinely horrible. Some worked for organizations linked to Hamas, and cheered the murder of Jews." Here is his attempt at satire, in defense of genocide (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7957 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7957): "Meanwhile, at elite academic institutions across the region, the calls for justice have been deafening. “From the Nile to the Sea of Reeds, free Egypt from Jacob’s seeds!” students chanted. Some protesters even taunted passing Hebrew slaves with “go back to Canaan!”, though others were quick to disavow that message. According to Professor O’Connor, it’s important to clarify that the Hebrews don’t belong in Canaan either, and that finding a place where they do belong is not the protesters’ job."
- jampekka 2y ago
  Especially as even being baselessly accused of antisemitism carries very real chance for ruining careers and reputations.

You are acting as if the world is binary and either the previous status quo was justified or Trump's actions are justified, neither of which have to be the case.

kombine 2y ago

Previous status quo was absolutely unjustified, therefore brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> brave students protested it, at a great personal risk while being slandered as "antisemites" by individuals like Scott Aaronson Do you have an example? Israel-Palestine is a nuanced ground truth that has been ridiculously oversimplified in American discourse. "Pro Israel" covers folks who want to kill every Palestinian and annex their land to those who just don't want kids slaughtered at raves. "Pro Palestine" covers people who want the basic human dignity of an ancient people respected, through those who want to destroy Israel as a nation-state, all the way over to full-blown racists who hate Jews (or anyone with European heritage).
- kombine 2y ago
  > Do you have an example? If you lived under the rock the entire 2024, here is one: https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDomiaW7jiiXsorSj3ib11aAr9LmmZ6bQ6WH7Am12KnARoXwNpgSYTRFkfWKhTl https://www.facebook.com/scott.aaronson.5/posts/pfbid0H5mDom... > the 20-year-old Israeli who’s now in notoriously antisemitic Malmö, Sweden It's because of Aaronson and others that the original meaning of antisemitism almost entirely lost its meaning. They perverted it to suit their political agenda.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Do you have an example of student being called an antisemite by Aaronson?
    - kombine 2y ago
      People like Aaronson are smart enough not to directly say that. Here is a Berkeley professor likening student protests to Kristallnacht: https://www.facebook.com/alyosha.efros/posts/pfbid0UapTQuH6pmRDXwwLvJLxM6Cdpu2kRjpBFNKiqCPEVjnVTDvgkoxbc67MQb9bAw8Ml https://www.facebook.com/alyosha.efros/posts/pfbid0UapTQuH6p... And completely forgetting to mention there is a Jewish block literally in the photo they took themselves. Obviously, they never mention the actual violence by the Zionist counter-protesters, which in my experience far exceeds that of the pro-Palestinian proteseters.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > People like Aaronson are smart enough not to directly say that Doesn't that completely undermine the claim that students were being slandered as anti-Semites? Like, yes, I'd prefer people thought nice things all the time. But if they're thinking something I consider mean, I'm happier with them keeping it to themselves. And if they won't, I prefer they call out a group versus attacking random individuals within it for being a member of that group.
    - user982 2y ago
      Sure, here's his characterization of the protesting students as of two weeks ago (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8754 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8754): "Leftist Students and Faculty: We’d sooner burn universities to the ground than allow them to remain safe for the hated Zionist Jews, the baby-killing demons of the earth. We’ll disrupt their classes, bar them from student activities, smash their Hillel centers, take over campus buildings and quads, and chant for Hezbollah and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades to eradicate them like vermin. We’ll do all this because we’ve so thoroughly learned the lessons of the Holocaust." Here are Scott Aaronson's claims about Trump deportees (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8758 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8758): "It’s important to add: from what I know, some of the people being detained and deported are genuinely horrible. Some worked for organizations linked to Hamas, and cheered the murder of Jews." Here is his attempt at satire, in defense of genocide (https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7957 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=7957): "Meanwhile, at elite academic institutions across the region, the calls for justice have been deafening. “From the Nile to the Sea of Reeds, free Egypt from Jacob’s seeds!” students chanted. Some protesters even taunted passing Hebrew slaves with “go back to Canaan!”, though others were quick to disavow that message. According to Professor O’Connor, it’s important to clarify that the Hebrews don’t belong in Canaan either, and that finding a place where they do belong is not the protesters’ job."
jampekka 2y ago
Especially as even being baselessly accused of antisemitism carries very real chance for ruining careers and reputations.