4 ms·

Abundance: Big Tech's Bid for the Democratic Party

19 points by abalone 1y ago

jeffbee 1y ago
Don't let these guys steal an entire word. It may be that some Tesla-implanted Libertarian weirdo co-hosted an "Abundance 2024 conference". That doesn't kill "abundance" as a goal. We need an abundance of housing. It is necessary and critical to our material success as a nation. You can't let the Koch Bros. fabricate a conference called "YIMBY America 2024" or whatever and then point to it and say "see, I warned you about those YIMBYs!" You have to engage with the substance of the debate.
- abalone 1y ago
  “Those guys” are California YIMBY. The Stripe brothers for example are major funders.[1] One of the “California Forever” billionaires, Patrick Collison, CEO of Stripe, looms large in Abundance world. Along with Open Philanthropy, he donated to fund a $120 million “Abundance” grant tied to Klein’s book release. Collison is a key backer and inspiration for the Institute for Progress (IFP), a think tank which works closely with others in the Abundance network, including at the Abundance 2024 conference. Collison co-founded “Progress Studies” with economist Tyler Cowen, born from their Atlantic article, “We Need a New Science of Progress.” While IFP isn’t officially a “Progress Studies” think tank, its mission aligns closely, and it has received funding from both Collison and Emergent Ventures, Cowen’s Mercatus Center grant program established with funding from Thiel. Klein and Thompson were interviewed by Collison on their book tour. Cowen has his own interest in Network State style projects. Balaji Srinivasan, a cryptocurrency billionaire and Próspera funder, defines a Network State as “a highly aligned online community with a capacity for collective action that crowdfunds territory around the world.” In this alternative governance structure, tech elites would create private, blockchain based enclaves—Srinivasan calls this “tech zionism.” Network States are founded on empty land, or by taking over an existing city—as Network State evangelists have attempted in San Francisco. Srinivasan even called for “ethnically cleansing” San Francisco of non-tech people. Cowen is an early backer of Praxis, alongside Srinivasan and Thiel. Praxis describes itself as “a grassroots movement of modern pioneers,” aiming to build an autonomous, cryptocurrency city. Initial plans proposed a Mediterranean location, but last fall, the Praxis CEO tweeted “I went to Greenland to try to buy it.” Greenland, however, reiterated that the country is not for sale. Cowen has been a protégé and friend of Thiel’s, citing him as a major influence. He advocates a form of government called “State Capacity Libertarianism” which, unlike anarcho-capitalism, includes a strong state apparatus. In Cowen’s words: “a good strong state should see the maintenance and extension of capitalism as one of its primary duties, in many cases its #1 duty.” He explicitly credits Thiel for inspiring this idea: “You will note the influence of Peter Thiel on State Capacity Libertarianism,” Cowen writes, “though I have never heard him frame the issues in this way.” [1] https://www.housingisahumanright.org/why-is-california-yimby-hiding-the-names-of-big-money-contributors/ https://www.housingisahumanright.org/why-is-california-yimby...
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Didn't you just fall into exactly the trap I tried to tell you about? If Donald Trump himself gives five dollars to CA YIMBY, does that poison the YIMBY agenda? What are the actual policy proposals of Abundance advocates? What is CA YIMBY's 2025 legislative agenda?
    - abalone 1y ago
      The Donald Trump in this analogy is.. Patrick Collison? And the “five dollars” is $120M? Your premise is these right-wing anti democratic ideologues are on the fringes of the YIMBY movement. That is not supported by the facts. I quoted just one passage demonstrating the literal partnership between a major tech leader / CA YIMBY / Abundance funder and a Peter Thiel funded right wing “Libertarian” with dark visions of police city states. They are not at the fringes, they are at the heart of it and provide the major funding for it.
      - jeffbee 1y ago
        You have no idea what the YIMBY legislative agenda is, do you? For example out of these hundreds of bills, which do you accuse of being the descendant of the influence of Peter Thiel et al? https://alfredtwu.medium.com/2024-california-housing-legislation-highlights-bill-tracker-10dfbb23a188 https://alfredtwu.medium.com/2024-california-housing-legisla...
        abalone 1y ago
        I do, and they are notable for their lack of advancement of social housing, the number one solution internationally for affordable housing for all people. But you’re avoiding the thesis of the article which is that the core funders of the YIMBY movement are more broadly involved in right-leaning politics — not just fringe thinkers. >What began as the Yes In My Backyard (YIMBY) project’s narrow focus on zoning reform evolved into a sweeping pro-growth, neoliberal, and socially moderate brand of politics. “Abundance!” now serves as a rallying cry for a new kind of Democrat: techno-optimistic, skeptical of government, and supportive of a welfare state only when it comes with harsh restrictions. There was a time when progressive social housing and market rate development advocates were united against NIMBY zoning rules. But these more conservative forces have come to dominate Yimby (through enormous amounts of funding) and direct its ire more generally against progressives that see oligarchy, not just zoning, as the primary problem in our society.
- m_fayer 1y ago
  Agreed, this word needs to be claimed and defended. We need a sane politics that can win and for that we need to start with a rallying cry, in a nation where the median is poor, materialistic, and amoral. Obviously, rallying around “diversity” or “girlboss” or “degrowth” is not a durable winner. “MAGA” unfortunately might be a durable winner. “Abundance” has a fighting chance, and it’s even morally defensible.
  - abalone 1y ago
    > We need a sane politics that can win and for that we need to start with a rallying cry The answer is staring us right in the face. It’s a catchy slogan and pulling tens of thousands even in deep red MAGA country. https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/04/13/fighting-oligarchy-bernie-sanders/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/04/13/fighting-oli... https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2025-04-12/bernie-sanders-fighting-oligarchy-tour-los-angeles-aoc-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joan-baez-neil-young-maggie-rogers https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2025-04-12/bernie-san...
    - m_fayer 1y ago
      "Extraordinary danger"? "Fighting the oligarchy"? Those can certainly pull tens of thousands of people to the street. But I'm not so sure it's enough to win. See what I said above - materialistic, amoral. I'm afraid that the rallying cry we need must contain an answer to "what's in it for me?" to be a winner.
      - bigbadfeline 1y ago
        "Fighting the oligarchy" is the new slogan. "Fighting the deep state" and "Draining the swamp" are the old ones. I see no reason to believe that any of these is more truthful than the others, it's just tail chasing from both ends.
  - exceptione 1y ago
    Everything that does not confront the rigid beliefs and behaviors that leads to autocracy is distracting the dying patient. Neoliberalism => Corporatism => Autocracy People are not thinking about improving the world, they are looking to "own" the enemy, Sado Populism.
- grafmax 1y ago
  Neoliberal policy has failed the working class. That’s what’s driven so many people toward Trump’s brand of populism. We need an alternative that actually prioritizes working people, not just the “free market” interests of a different set of billionaires. This is not a real solution.
  - Manuel_D 1y ago
    Neoliberal policy as defined in Abundance didn't fail the working class, because those policies weren't put in place in most blue cities. Housing is expensive in San Francisco precisely because the reforms outlined in Abundance weren't made. Real estate in SF is about as far from "free market" as you can get. The denialism of market forces is one of the worst aspects of progressives. Like it or not, the only way housing is going to become cheap is if there so much housing available that landlords actually have to compete for tenants. You can build public housing, and have a 20 year waiting list for it. You can have rent control, but that only benefits long-time residents at the expense of newcomers. But the only thing that will make cheap housing widely available is to make it easy to build, so developers can saturate the market with housing.
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      Congratulations on becoming a Marxist! Please inform the other comrade in this discussion that Karl would have strangled Dean Preston with his bare hands, because Marx, the materialist, cared about the actual conditions of the people, and rejected idealism, i.e. "I am a tenants' rights advocate".
      - klipt 1y ago
        Marx was certainly smarter than many of his followers. Now Deng Xiaoping, he was a really smart communist. "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice"
        egberts1 1y ago
        Marx was smart enough to mooch off of his friend's attic space for free.
exceptione 1y ago
If you don't do the post-mortem of "how did we end up here", no project, no plan makes a change. * First understand every point on the curve between a healthy democratic society and autocracy is slippery, not stable. * Next, understand how autocracy rises. If you want to look at the drivers toward autocracy, you will find them invariably in the same places. * The US problems - Braunhemde, already before WOII, then imported more of them afterwards. No press coverage, they are real. Even the "Sieg Heil"s on CPAC did not draw media coverage. - Cultism. Serious, deep cultism. - As a specialization: Christian nationalism + conservatism, replay of the '30s - https://xcancel.com/YourAnonCentral/status/1910179753430299043 - https://xcancel.com/sola_chad/status/1802398272293581272#m1 - Incredible concentrations of (inherited) wealth, deformed perspectives of the other 99% cultivated over generational spans - No real journalism, instead, career in media house depend on commercial ownership. Narratives tailored to segment, but no deep and critical impact of analysis. - "Let us talk about the tariffs today, they make zero economic sense" - "I think what he meant is..." - "Of course this is not entirely correct, but..." - "President Trump has said.." - "Rubio did a press conference today" - Only drama, never the Big Picture. - Elections? According to the press, those are just - The latest polls! - Repeat marketing from spin doctors at affiliated media houses - "Debate" = Reality TV, scores are given on wit and emotional play - Fake news is allowed as a business model. - Rigidity => distorted beliefs. See rigidity about "free speech" via decades of pushed narratives. Now look at all the book banning, canceling of research based on keyword match. - Rigidity about free markets. Now you pay 5 million for a dinner with The Suppreme Sovite to get your business free. Tariffs, because, you know? - No concept of "Paradox of Tolerance". Parties that don't want to participate in a democratic society with rule of law and separation of powers CANNOT be part of the system. Period. - Overall corruption by oligarchy. The GOP has been killed, but the Dems have the problems too, making it difficult to make any postmortem - Exceptionalism - Vast information deserts (there are states where information cannot reach people at all ), where nothing is served but right-wing reality distortion as commercial fast-food - Normalization of personal retaliation against political enemies (that is why everybody is obeying in advance, people are used to be abused by power). Americans are frightened. - No concept of common good, everyone hustling. Also: competition means *killing* the competitor. That playbook is deeply normalized, see Big Tech. Microsoft, Intel->AMD, Google etc - Regulatory capture, rules for thee, exceptions for me - "If you are so smart, why aren't you rich?" Deep cultural programming - State capture, this is reaching the critical stage now. - Normalisation of sado-populism. "I don't care, I want the other suffer". - Class-based society This was my TED talk.
sc68cal 1y ago
"What if we did _more_ neoliberalism but maybe were a bit more racist?"

19 points by abalone 1y ago

Don't let these guys steal an entire word. It may be that some Tesla-implanted Libertarian weirdo co-hosted an "Abundance 2024 conference". That doesn't kill "abundance" as a goal. We need an abundance of housing. It is necessary and critical to our material success as a nation. You can't let the Koch Bros. fabricate a conference called "YIMBY America 2024" or whatever and then point to it and say "see, I warned you about those YIMBYs!" You have to engage with the substance of the debate.

abalone 1y ago
“Those guys” are California YIMBY. The Stripe brothers for example are major funders.[1] One of the “California Forever” billionaires, Patrick Collison, CEO of Stripe, looms large in Abundance world. Along with Open Philanthropy, he donated to fund a $120 million “Abundance” grant tied to Klein’s book release. Collison is a key backer and inspiration for the Institute for Progress (IFP), a think tank which works closely with others in the Abundance network, including at the Abundance 2024 conference. Collison co-founded “Progress Studies” with economist Tyler Cowen, born from their Atlantic article, “We Need a New Science of Progress.” While IFP isn’t officially a “Progress Studies” think tank, its mission aligns closely, and it has received funding from both Collison and Emergent Ventures, Cowen’s Mercatus Center grant program established with funding from Thiel. Klein and Thompson were interviewed by Collison on their book tour. Cowen has his own interest in Network State style projects. Balaji Srinivasan, a cryptocurrency billionaire and Próspera funder, defines a Network State as “a highly aligned online community with a capacity for collective action that crowdfunds territory around the world.” In this alternative governance structure, tech elites would create private, blockchain based enclaves—Srinivasan calls this “tech zionism.” Network States are founded on empty land, or by taking over an existing city—as Network State evangelists have attempted in San Francisco. Srinivasan even called for “ethnically cleansing” San Francisco of non-tech people. Cowen is an early backer of Praxis, alongside Srinivasan and Thiel. Praxis describes itself as “a grassroots movement of modern pioneers,” aiming to build an autonomous, cryptocurrency city. Initial plans proposed a Mediterranean location, but last fall, the Praxis CEO tweeted “I went to Greenland to try to buy it.” Greenland, however, reiterated that the country is not for sale. Cowen has been a protégé and friend of Thiel’s, citing him as a major influence. He advocates a form of government called “State Capacity Libertarianism” which, unlike anarcho-capitalism, includes a strong state apparatus. In Cowen’s words: “a good strong state should see the maintenance and extension of capitalism as one of its primary duties, in many cases its #1 duty.” He explicitly credits Thiel for inspiring this idea: “You will note the influence of Peter Thiel on State Capacity Libertarianism,” Cowen writes, “though I have never heard him frame the issues in this way.” [1] https://www.housingisahumanright.org/why-is-california-yimby-hiding-the-names-of-big-money-contributors/ https://www.housingisahumanright.org/why-is-california-yimby...
- jeffbee 1y ago
  Didn't you just fall into exactly the trap I tried to tell you about? If Donald Trump himself gives five dollars to CA YIMBY, does that poison the YIMBY agenda? What are the actual policy proposals of Abundance advocates? What is CA YIMBY's 2025 legislative agenda?
  - abalone 1y ago
    The Donald Trump in this analogy is.. Patrick Collison? And the “five dollars” is $120M? Your premise is these right-wing anti democratic ideologues are on the fringes of the YIMBY movement. That is not supported by the facts. I quoted just one passage demonstrating the literal partnership between a major tech leader / CA YIMBY / Abundance funder and a Peter Thiel funded right wing “Libertarian” with dark visions of police city states. They are not at the fringes, they are at the heart of it and provide the major funding for it.
    - jeffbee 1y ago
      You have no idea what the YIMBY legislative agenda is, do you? For example out of these hundreds of bills, which do you accuse of being the descendant of the influence of Peter Thiel et al? https://alfredtwu.medium.com/2024-california-housing-legislation-highlights-bill-tracker-10dfbb23a188 https://alfredtwu.medium.com/2024-california-housing-legisla...
      - abalone 1y ago
        I do, and they are notable for their lack of advancement of social housing, the number one solution internationally for affordable housing for all people. But you’re avoiding the thesis of the article which is that the core funders of the YIMBY movement are more broadly involved in right-leaning politics — not just fringe thinkers. >What began as the Yes In My Backyard (YIMBY) project’s narrow focus on zoning reform evolved into a sweeping pro-growth, neoliberal, and socially moderate brand of politics. “Abundance!” now serves as a rallying cry for a new kind of Democrat: techno-optimistic, skeptical of government, and supportive of a welfare state only when it comes with harsh restrictions. There was a time when progressive social housing and market rate development advocates were united against NIMBY zoning rules. But these more conservative forces have come to dominate Yimby (through enormous amounts of funding) and direct its ire more generally against progressives that see oligarchy, not just zoning, as the primary problem in our society.
m_fayer 1y ago
Agreed, this word needs to be claimed and defended. We need a sane politics that can win and for that we need to start with a rallying cry, in a nation where the median is poor, materialistic, and amoral. Obviously, rallying around “diversity” or “girlboss” or “degrowth” is not a durable winner. “MAGA” unfortunately might be a durable winner. “Abundance” has a fighting chance, and it’s even morally defensible.
- abalone 1y ago
  > We need a sane politics that can win and for that we need to start with a rallying cry The answer is staring us right in the face. It’s a catchy slogan and pulling tens of thousands even in deep red MAGA country. https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/04/13/fighting-oligarchy-bernie-sanders/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2025/04/13/fighting-oli... https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2025-04-12/bernie-sanders-fighting-oligarchy-tour-los-angeles-aoc-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joan-baez-neil-young-maggie-rogers https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2025-04-12/bernie-san...
  - m_fayer 1y ago
    "Extraordinary danger"? "Fighting the oligarchy"? Those can certainly pull tens of thousands of people to the street. But I'm not so sure it's enough to win. See what I said above - materialistic, amoral. I'm afraid that the rallying cry we need must contain an answer to "what's in it for me?" to be a winner.
    - bigbadfeline 1y ago
      "Fighting the oligarchy" is the new slogan. "Fighting the deep state" and "Draining the swamp" are the old ones. I see no reason to believe that any of these is more truthful than the others, it's just tail chasing from both ends.
- exceptione 1y ago
  Everything that does not confront the rigid beliefs and behaviors that leads to autocracy is distracting the dying patient. Neoliberalism => Corporatism => Autocracy People are not thinking about improving the world, they are looking to "own" the enemy, Sado Populism.
grafmax 1y ago
Neoliberal policy has failed the working class. That’s what’s driven so many people toward Trump’s brand of populism. We need an alternative that actually prioritizes working people, not just the “free market” interests of a different set of billionaires. This is not a real solution.
- Manuel_D 1y ago
  Neoliberal policy as defined in Abundance didn't fail the working class, because those policies weren't put in place in most blue cities. Housing is expensive in San Francisco precisely because the reforms outlined in Abundance weren't made. Real estate in SF is about as far from "free market" as you can get. The denialism of market forces is one of the worst aspects of progressives. Like it or not, the only way housing is going to become cheap is if there so much housing available that landlords actually have to compete for tenants. You can build public housing, and have a 20 year waiting list for it. You can have rent control, but that only benefits long-time residents at the expense of newcomers. But the only thing that will make cheap housing widely available is to make it easy to build, so developers can saturate the market with housing.
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Congratulations on becoming a Marxist! Please inform the other comrade in this discussion that Karl would have strangled Dean Preston with his bare hands, because Marx, the materialist, cared about the actual conditions of the people, and rejected idealism, i.e. "I am a tenants' rights advocate".
    - klipt 1y ago
      Marx was certainly smarter than many of his followers. Now Deng Xiaoping, he was a really smart communist. "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice"
      - egberts1 1y ago
        Marx was smart enough to mooch off of his friend's attic space for free.

exceptione 1y ago

If you don't do the post-mortem of "how did we end up here", no project, no plan makes a change. * First understand every point on the curve between a healthy democratic society and autocracy is slippery, not stable. * Next, understand how autocracy rises. If you want to look at the drivers toward autocracy, you will find them invariably in the same places. * The US problems - Braunhemde, already before WOII, then imported more of them afterwards. No press coverage, they are real. Even the "Sieg Heil"s on CPAC did not draw media coverage. - Cultism. Serious, deep cultism. - As a specialization: Christian nationalism + conservatism, replay of the '30s - https://xcancel.com/YourAnonCentral/status/1910179753430299043 - https://xcancel.com/sola_chad/status/1802398272293581272#m1 - Incredible concentrations of (inherited) wealth, deformed perspectives of the other 99% cultivated over generational spans - No real journalism, instead, career in media house depend on commercial ownership. Narratives tailored to segment, but no deep and critical impact of analysis. - "Let us talk about the tariffs today, they make zero economic sense" - "I think what he meant is..." - "Of course this is not entirely correct, but..." - "President Trump has said.." - "Rubio did a press conference today" - Only drama, never the Big Picture. - Elections? According to the press, those are just - The latest polls! - Repeat marketing from spin doctors at affiliated media houses - "Debate" = Reality TV, scores are given on wit and emotional play - Fake news is allowed as a business model. - Rigidity => distorted beliefs. See rigidity about "free speech" via decades of pushed narratives. Now look at all the book banning, canceling of research based on keyword match. - Rigidity about free markets. Now you pay 5 million for a dinner with The Suppreme Sovite to get your business free. Tariffs, because, you know? - No concept of "Paradox of Tolerance". Parties that don't want to participate in a democratic society with rule of law and separation of powers CANNOT be part of the system. Period. - Overall corruption by oligarchy. The GOP has been killed, but the Dems have the problems too, making it difficult to make any postmortem - Exceptionalism - Vast information deserts (there are states where information cannot reach people at all ), where nothing is served but right-wing reality distortion as commercial fast-food - Normalization of personal retaliation against political enemies (that is why everybody is obeying in advance, people are used to be abused by power). Americans are frightened. - No concept of common good, everyone hustling. Also: competition means *killing* the competitor. That playbook is deeply normalized, see Big Tech. Microsoft, Intel->AMD, Google etc - Regulatory capture, rules for thee, exceptions for me - "If you are so smart, why aren't you rich?" Deep cultural programming - State capture, this is reaching the critical stage now. - Normalisation of sado-populism. "I don't care, I want the other suffer". - Class-based society This was my TED talk.

sc68cal 1y ago

"What if we did _more_ neoliberalism but maybe were a bit more racist?"