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I can see the value in telling people to avoid the us for travel and work, but I'm not sure I see much people can do to change this situation other than being m

I can see the value in telling people to avoid the us for travel and work, but I'm not sure I see much people can do to change this situation other than being more cautious?

mschuster91 2y ago
> but I'm not sure I see much people can do to change this situation other than being more cautious? The rate things are going, y'all need to revive the Underground Railroad or, to use a more historically accurate comparison, what a few German citizens did during 1933-1945 - hide foreigners in your homes to prevent them being sent off to extermination camps.
- RajT88 2y ago
  Trump floated this week deporting citizens. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-some-us-citizens-el-salvador-2025-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-so...
  - _bin_ 2y ago
    Question, since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere: is he actually discussing deportation or is he effectively talking about using Salvadoran prisons on a contract basis? That's probably not especially humane; then again, neither are existing private prisons. We do have crazy crowding and overflow problems so I can understand the motivation though I doubt El Salvador is providing much in the way of better conditions.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      El Salvador is chosen because no matter what even the Supreme Court says or should this administration be yeeted out of office, as long as Bukele doesn't say otherwise, there is nothing short of a military invasion that can bring any of these prisoners back. The cruelty is the point.
    - RajT88 2y ago
      On the surface it looks like the latter. But when visas are getting revoked from equating "hey guys, maybe war crimes against Palestinian civilians are bad" with terrorism I do not think we can trust that any legal precedent will be leveraged only for its stated purpose.
- _bin_ 2y ago
  It's not particularly constructive to talk about "extermination camps" when there is no particular evidence of that. Disrespecting rule of law is bad but an aggressive deportation policy after years of ignoring it, given that we don't have the infrastructure to support eleven million cases, is at least understandable in motivation. It's the only practical way to deport all of them, not a few thousand like most admins end up doing, though I disagree with these means of addressing the issue as opposed to forcing self-deports.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > It's not particularly constructive to talk about "extermination camps" when there is no particular evidence of that. Yet. That's the thing. Remember the "Hang Mike Pence" chants, the gallows they brought Jan 6th? The administration and its fanbase are not shy of calling for terminal violence. I'm German, we all learn in school how the 1933-1945 regime started. And it didn't start with extermination campaigns directly back then as well - it started with confiscating and burning books, with one of the first targets being the Hirschfeld Institute that was researching LGBT questions. And over time, pressure ratcheted up, and target lists increased. People were snatched from the streets, secret police rounded up houses, and eventually they ended up corralling off entire neighborhoods, swiftly disposing of the people in the extermination camps.
    - _bin_ 2y ago
      Are we just pretending that calls for political violence aren't more or less de rigueur in today's political climate? Years of "fiery but mostly peaceful" protests, of people celebrating the multiple assassination attempts on Trump, etc. I'm "both sidesing" this not out of a pathological compulsion to defend right-wingers but because pretending this is unique to the right wing means we'll misidentify the underlying cause and fail to fix it.
  - naught0 2y ago
    What do you mean "ignoring" it? Biden deported hundreds of thousands of people, surpassing even Trump's records. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o If the only practical way to deport the "right" amount of people is to disobey the courts and catch innocent Americans in the dragnet and deny them of due process, then maybe we shouldn't do that. You say that their motivations are understandable, but so are the reasons behind extermination camps. They are ruthlessly efficient. Having a reason for doing something does not make it right, just, or legal. At the end of the day, we have sent dozens of immigrants with legal status and no criminal history to El Salvador's version of Guantanamo Bay, where people do indeed die with regularity. Here's something from last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/el-salvadors-prisons-deaths-anti-gang-crackdown-rcna161327 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/el-salvadors-prisons-deat... So, we're sending Americans of a certain stripe (color) to camps in other countries where there is no escape, and where it is not unlikely they will perish. What do you call this?

I can see the value in telling people to avoid the us for travel and work, but I'm not sure I see much people can do to change this situation other than being more cautious?

mschuster91 2y ago

> but I'm not sure I see much people can do to change this situation other than being more cautious? The rate things are going, y'all need to revive the Underground Railroad or, to use a more historically accurate comparison, what a few German citizens did during 1933-1945 - hide foreigners in your homes to prevent them being sent off to extermination camps.

RajT88 2y ago
Trump floated this week deporting citizens. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-some-us-citizens-el-salvador-2025-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-so...
- _bin_ 2y ago
  Question, since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere: is he actually discussing deportation or is he effectively talking about using Salvadoran prisons on a contract basis? That's probably not especially humane; then again, neither are existing private prisons. We do have crazy crowding and overflow problems so I can understand the motivation though I doubt El Salvador is providing much in the way of better conditions.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    El Salvador is chosen because no matter what even the Supreme Court says or should this administration be yeeted out of office, as long as Bukele doesn't say otherwise, there is nothing short of a military invasion that can bring any of these prisoners back. The cruelty is the point.
  - RajT88 2y ago
    On the surface it looks like the latter. But when visas are getting revoked from equating "hey guys, maybe war crimes against Palestinian civilians are bad" with terrorism I do not think we can trust that any legal precedent will be leveraged only for its stated purpose.
_bin_ 2y ago
It's not particularly constructive to talk about "extermination camps" when there is no particular evidence of that. Disrespecting rule of law is bad but an aggressive deportation policy after years of ignoring it, given that we don't have the infrastructure to support eleven million cases, is at least understandable in motivation. It's the only practical way to deport all of them, not a few thousand like most admins end up doing, though I disagree with these means of addressing the issue as opposed to forcing self-deports.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > It's not particularly constructive to talk about "extermination camps" when there is no particular evidence of that. Yet. That's the thing. Remember the "Hang Mike Pence" chants, the gallows they brought Jan 6th? The administration and its fanbase are not shy of calling for terminal violence. I'm German, we all learn in school how the 1933-1945 regime started. And it didn't start with extermination campaigns directly back then as well - it started with confiscating and burning books, with one of the first targets being the Hirschfeld Institute that was researching LGBT questions. And over time, pressure ratcheted up, and target lists increased. People were snatched from the streets, secret police rounded up houses, and eventually they ended up corralling off entire neighborhoods, swiftly disposing of the people in the extermination camps.
  - _bin_ 2y ago
    Are we just pretending that calls for political violence aren't more or less de rigueur in today's political climate? Years of "fiery but mostly peaceful" protests, of people celebrating the multiple assassination attempts on Trump, etc. I'm "both sidesing" this not out of a pathological compulsion to defend right-wingers but because pretending this is unique to the right wing means we'll misidentify the underlying cause and fail to fix it.
- naught0 2y ago
  What do you mean "ignoring" it? Biden deported hundreds of thousands of people, surpassing even Trump's records. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o If the only practical way to deport the "right" amount of people is to disobey the courts and catch innocent Americans in the dragnet and deny them of due process, then maybe we shouldn't do that. You say that their motivations are understandable, but so are the reasons behind extermination camps. They are ruthlessly efficient. Having a reason for doing something does not make it right, just, or legal. At the end of the day, we have sent dozens of immigrants with legal status and no criminal history to El Salvador's version of Guantanamo Bay, where people do indeed die with regularity. Here's something from last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/el-salvadors-prisons-deaths-anti-gang-crackdown-rcna161327 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/el-salvadors-prisons-deat... So, we're sending Americans of a certain stripe (color) to camps in other countries where there is no escape, and where it is not unlikely they will perish. What do you call this?