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> The obsession with AI (and other vapourware) in our industry ... fuelling the hard-right — who coincidentally are very much using AI. Is it useless or not? I

> The obsession with AI (and other vapourware) in our industry ... fuelling the hard-right — who coincidentally are very much using AI. Is it useless or not? If it's vapourware, why would you care if the other side uses it? If the far right is using it successfully, then by definition it is not vapourware, right?

mariusor 1y ago
Because the output from LLMs drowns everything else. So if people use it to drown actual discussions yes, it's useful for that. Everyone else though, has to suffer.
- zamadatix 1y ago
  I think that's aligns with what GP is saying: if one is going to say people are using it, even if for things you don't like, then choosing to call it vapourware in the same paragraph is a confusing use of the term. In a charitable reading I think the author was meaning something along the lines of "fails to be as useful as made to sound on things I think are worth valuing but very useful for things I think are slop" but chose a different meaning term by mistake.
  - mariusor 1y ago
    LLMs are purported by their creators to have a different use (advancing of human knowledge, genuine artificial intelligence, etc) than drowning discussions online. The fact that people can find some uses for bad technology does not make it less of a failure or, those goals less hot air.
    - srveale 1y ago
      As someone who uses LLMs every day for general questions/brainstorming, more efficient coding, and building a product used by doctors to improve their documentation (saving them hours per week and freeing them to interact with their patients more personally), I would like more of this hot air please. Would you begrudge disabled people their new assistants? Language learners their translators? I could go on. LLMs have some very important downsides, and I fully agree that they are dangerous, but we should dispel the notion that they don't have positive use cases. That leaves the benefits on the table, while the bad actors will continue with their destruction anyways. Anyway, my original point was indeed just about the semantics of the word "vapourware", which if I'm interpreting the author correctly, would be better replaced with "malware" (not that I agree with such a stance).
    - zamadatix 1y ago
      Again, the issue is the term "vapourware" does not refer to software which one considers bad, misguided from its original goals, or a failure.
      - mariusor 1y ago
        It fits for software that has not reached its creators stated goals. LLMs are not AI and have not improved lives for any human, outside of making some people rich.
        zamadatix 1y ago
        I'd disagree the definition fits that situation as vapourware is for software which is still unobtainable, not software which is available but the reviews and feature coverage suck vs the advertisement hype. Are we able to talk about that definition further before we dive into talking about your views on LLMs?
Apreche 1y ago
Why should I care if someone else builds and uses the torment nexus? Because I’m among those being tormented!
- srveale 1y ago
  I think you misinterpreted my comment as "LLMs are good" which is a different conversation. My point is: you can't say LLMs are a dangerous tool and call them vapourware at the same time. It's a contradiction in terms.

mariusor 1y ago

Because the output from LLMs drowns everything else. So if people use it to drown actual discussions yes, it's useful for that. Everyone else though, has to suffer.

zamadatix 1y ago
I think that's aligns with what GP is saying: if one is going to say people are using it, even if for things you don't like, then choosing to call it vapourware in the same paragraph is a confusing use of the term. In a charitable reading I think the author was meaning something along the lines of "fails to be as useful as made to sound on things I think are worth valuing but very useful for things I think are slop" but chose a different meaning term by mistake.
- mariusor 1y ago
  LLMs are purported by their creators to have a different use (advancing of human knowledge, genuine artificial intelligence, etc) than drowning discussions online. The fact that people can find some uses for bad technology does not make it less of a failure or, those goals less hot air.
  - srveale 1y ago
    As someone who uses LLMs every day for general questions/brainstorming, more efficient coding, and building a product used by doctors to improve their documentation (saving them hours per week and freeing them to interact with their patients more personally), I would like more of this hot air please. Would you begrudge disabled people their new assistants? Language learners their translators? I could go on. LLMs have some very important downsides, and I fully agree that they are dangerous, but we should dispel the notion that they don't have positive use cases. That leaves the benefits on the table, while the bad actors will continue with their destruction anyways. Anyway, my original point was indeed just about the semantics of the word "vapourware", which if I'm interpreting the author correctly, would be better replaced with "malware" (not that I agree with such a stance).
  - zamadatix 1y ago
    Again, the issue is the term "vapourware" does not refer to software which one considers bad, misguided from its original goals, or a failure.
    - mariusor 1y ago
      It fits for software that has not reached its creators stated goals. LLMs are not AI and have not improved lives for any human, outside of making some people rich.
      - zamadatix 1y ago
        I'd disagree the definition fits that situation as vapourware is for software which is still unobtainable, not software which is available but the reviews and feature coverage suck vs the advertisement hype. Are we able to talk about that definition further before we dive into talking about your views on LLMs?

Apreche 1y ago

Why should I care if someone else builds and uses the torment nexus? Because I’m among those being tormented!

srveale 1y ago
I think you misinterpreted my comment as "LLMs are good" which is a different conversation. My point is: you can't say LLMs are a dangerous tool and call them vapourware at the same time. It's a contradiction in terms.