5 ms·
Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
by shin_lao 1y ago
Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
- nathan_compton 1y agoWell, sure, but perhaps some kind of plan is warranted?
- throwawaymaths 1y agoIsn't the point of capitalism to not have a plan and let the market figure it out?
- VeninVidiaVicii 1y agoCapitalism as such went out the window with tariffs.
- throwawaymaths 1y agoNo, purely free markets (which weren't free to start off with) went out the window.
- davidw 1y agoHow are markets going to figure anything out with tariffs changing every day, depending on the mood of dear leader?
- throwawaymaths 1y agoThat's a problem for the markets to suss out.
- fullshark 1y agoThey've sussed out that if you suck up to him he'll give you an exemption. Of course if you are a medium sized business you are screwed and have to wait in line, but you'll get your chance as long as you can hold on through the summer. In two years of course it won't matter.
- throwawaymaths 1y agosounds about right.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago> They've sussed out that if you suck up to him he'll give you an exemption It's a very thinly veiled protection racket. People do tend to repeat the plays that they know.
- Scarblac 1y agoThat's what we did, and it moved everything to China.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoChina, who do have an industrial strategy. It worked for them.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- goku12 1y agoI'm sure that the capitalists would disagree in this instance.
- forinti 1y agoCountries that believe that are dominated by those who plan.
- throwawaymaths 1y agoCitation needed. How did those five year plans go?
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoSeem to be doing OK, actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_China
- singron 1y agoIt's a principle of capitalism, but taken to the extreme, it's just a strawman. At this point, I think we are pretty sure that some interventions make capitalism better. This post is specifically about Industrial Policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_policy But other effective interventions are anti-trust and demand-inducing regulation (e.g. people want to fly because they know it's safe).
- InkCanon 1y agoThe free market (which I think people also include in capitalism) would correctly predict labour intensive jobs would be outsourced. This is very much a feature (comparative advantage), not a bug. I realized a lot of supposedly free market people don't even know the basics of it. Politically the free market has become an identity associated with national greatness and a sense of control of ones destiny. The dominant feeling seems to be if you have a free market, you will win everything (which is actually opposite from the truth).
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoNo, of course not. That's oversimplifying to the point of idiocy. Markets do not mean that an Industrial strategy / Industrial policy is not needed. Markets respond to incentives created by such a strategy.
- bluGill 1y agoThe point of Capitalism is Marx needed a straw man to tear down. The world has never seen what he envisioned. What you might call capitalists very much plan. They don't believe in central planning where one "guy" makes a plans and everyone else implements them, but they do plan.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago> they do plan. I've just sat through a long meeting with lots of Jiras and Q2 objectives. Trust me, there's planning. Lots of planning.
- nahuel0x 1y agoMarx never said that capitalists didn't plan. In fact, the possibility of the transition from late stage capitalism/imperialism to socialism is based on that very fact, capital got concentrated in very big companies with internal planification. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People%27s_Republic_of_Walmart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People%27s_Republic_of_Wal...
- postalrat 1y agoWho is going to commit the resources to make serious money losing plans vs manufacturing overseas?
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoIIRC correctly, the previous administration did try to do some of the slow, steady imperfect work of planning to gradually bring back key industries. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act and https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/11/24195811/biden-ev-factory-retrofit-conversion-grant-funding https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/11/24195811/biden-ev-factory... Of course, the voters wanted something else.
- jasonlotito 1y agoWhich is why things that bring back manufacturing to the US is something we were doing. It's just unfortunate that instead of continuing that, the current administration is trying undermine the effective efforts of the previous administration's actions that helped bring manufacturing back into the US.
- knowaveragejoe 1y agoNo, it doesn't. There is a presumption that manufacturing is Better, a more ideal way of organizing the economy, based on a false nostalgia of America past.
- anonzzzies 1y agosure, but it will take longer than 4 or 8 years and everyone in power wants their own thing, not continuity. it cannot happen without a long term plan and long term plans cannot happen if have, maybe, a year to do things and the rest is election time.