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> Helping them requires creating vast numbers of better paying jobs with better working condition in their country, which require redirecting vast amounts of mo

> Helping them requires creating vast numbers of better paying jobs with better working condition in their country, which require redirecting vast amounts of money to those countries This was the logic under Deng, and the reason China is now a peer state. Unfortunately when doing business with communists, enriching them doesn't help the individuals move out of poverty because that would require wages to rise and that happens for political reasons not merit in a single party system If we enrich the CCP we just end up with an adversary capable of taking us on. That's why tariffs.

forgetfreeman 2y ago
"If we enrich the CCP we just end up with an adversary capable of taking us on. That's why tariffs." This argument is absolutely accurate and somewhere between two and six decades late depending on who you feel like blaming for offshoring. Present day all we're doing is poking inflation with a stick, threatening the bond market (and eventually the dollar reserve), and encouraging economic partners to look elsewhere for stability. 3 guesses how all that ends.
- XenophileJKO 2y ago
  The thing that really annoys me is tariffs could have been used SO much more intelligently. For example a 24 month increasing schedule. That gives business the kind of incentive to affect manufacturing and something they can plan against. But now we have a dumpster fire and tariffs will have an even worse reputation.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    It might have been better reputation-wise than the current game of chicken, but tariffs will always sour economic partnerships, which in turn leads to bolstering alternative economic partnerships...
    - XenophileJKO 2y ago
      This is objectively untrue, tariffs exist all around the world and countries are still trading.
      - arghwhat 2y ago
        That tariffs are in use is not proof that it is untrue. Even with the current dumpster fire we still trade with the US, but that obviously does not mean there has been no harm. For countries, tariffs is not something that is just shrugged off as it impacts their economy, there will always be political countermeasures to strongly discourage that tariffs are applied that harms them. Retaliatory tariffs, impact on other negotiations and relationships, etc. For companies, tariffs harm profits and fair competition on both supply chain and consumer side, depending on where the tariffs are located. The company would strategize for maximum profit margins, circumventing tariffs, remove countries from their supply chain, and focusing on more profitable markets. It wouldn't be a boycott the same way it is now of course. It would be a slower process. But tariffs is a way to force the market and always have wide negative effects. One just hopes that certain long-term side-effects (like high import cost causing focus on driving down local supply cost) is worth the impact (local cost of living increase, drop in investments, drop in friendly reputation).
  - saalweachter 2y ago
    The tricky part is the goal is another tax cut. Right now, after all of the other tax cuts, our budget deficit is slightly larger than the US discretionary budget. Which means that, even if DOGE cut everything, there's still no way to close the deficit without raising taxes. Enter the tariffs.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gruez 2y ago
>Unfortunately when doing business with communists, enriching them doesn't help the individuals move out of poverty because that would require wages to rise and that happens for political reasons not merit in a single party system But poverty has dropped and income has risen under the CCP? You can argue that the CCP doesn't actually care about "individuals moving out of poverty", and all they care about is staying in power, but this is the sort of accusation that could be levied against governments in the west as well.
- Sabinus 2y ago
  Apparently the CCP does suppress wages in various ways to keep export goods manufactured cheaply/competitively. It's probably more of an economic strategy than an expression of collectivism but I can't be sure.
chairmansteve 2y ago
Why tariffs on Madagascar?
- WorldPeas 2y ago
  Maybe he’s not a fan of vanilla ice cream

forgetfreeman 2y ago

"If we enrich the CCP we just end up with an adversary capable of taking us on. That's why tariffs." This argument is absolutely accurate and somewhere between two and six decades late depending on who you feel like blaming for offshoring. Present day all we're doing is poking inflation with a stick, threatening the bond market (and eventually the dollar reserve), and encouraging economic partners to look elsewhere for stability. 3 guesses how all that ends.

XenophileJKO 2y ago
The thing that really annoys me is tariffs could have been used SO much more intelligently. For example a 24 month increasing schedule. That gives business the kind of incentive to affect manufacturing and something they can plan against. But now we have a dumpster fire and tariffs will have an even worse reputation.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  It might have been better reputation-wise than the current game of chicken, but tariffs will always sour economic partnerships, which in turn leads to bolstering alternative economic partnerships...
  - XenophileJKO 2y ago
    This is objectively untrue, tariffs exist all around the world and countries are still trading.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      That tariffs are in use is not proof that it is untrue. Even with the current dumpster fire we still trade with the US, but that obviously does not mean there has been no harm. For countries, tariffs is not something that is just shrugged off as it impacts their economy, there will always be political countermeasures to strongly discourage that tariffs are applied that harms them. Retaliatory tariffs, impact on other negotiations and relationships, etc. For companies, tariffs harm profits and fair competition on both supply chain and consumer side, depending on where the tariffs are located. The company would strategize for maximum profit margins, circumventing tariffs, remove countries from their supply chain, and focusing on more profitable markets. It wouldn't be a boycott the same way it is now of course. It would be a slower process. But tariffs is a way to force the market and always have wide negative effects. One just hopes that certain long-term side-effects (like high import cost causing focus on driving down local supply cost) is worth the impact (local cost of living increase, drop in investments, drop in friendly reputation).
- saalweachter 2y ago
  The tricky part is the goal is another tax cut. Right now, after all of the other tax cuts, our budget deficit is slightly larger than the US discretionary budget. Which means that, even if DOGE cut everything, there's still no way to close the deficit without raising taxes. Enter the tariffs.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gruez 2y ago

>Unfortunately when doing business with communists, enriching them doesn't help the individuals move out of poverty because that would require wages to rise and that happens for political reasons not merit in a single party system But poverty has dropped and income has risen under the CCP? You can argue that the CCP doesn't actually care about "individuals moving out of poverty", and all they care about is staying in power, but this is the sort of accusation that could be levied against governments in the west as well.

Sabinus 2y ago
Apparently the CCP does suppress wages in various ways to keep export goods manufactured cheaply/competitively. It's probably more of an economic strategy than an expression of collectivism but I can't be sure.

chairmansteve 2y ago

Why tariffs on Madagascar?

WorldPeas 2y ago
Maybe he’s not a fan of vanilla ice cream