6 ms·

When these people use "freedom of speech" all they mean is they want to say their vile Nazi stuff without people complaining.

mtsr 2y ago
Also called freedom from consequences. Free speech makes sense in a free society, freedom from consequences does not. Yet that's what they're calling for.
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
[flagged]
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  I was one of the people who briefly tried to take right wing “free speech” arguments at face value, eg when Elon Musk bought Twitter. Almost instantly he began allowing white supremacists and actual declared neo-Nazis back onto the platform, while kicking people off for any speech he didn’t like. I don’t think the claim “the recent right wing enthusiasm for ‘free speech’” does, in fact, selectively benefit Nazis and white supremacists” is actually wrong when you evaluate the effects.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
    Would you argue that the "kicking off" is more or less intense under Elon vs. the other guy? My impression that the rate of censorship overall has plummeted. Pre-Elon, it was easy to get banned for wrongthing. People would gang up on wrongthinkers, mass-report them, etc. I wonder what the rates of actual bans have been.
    - kristopolous 2y ago
      https://fortune.com/2024/09/25/twitter-x-account-suspensions-triple-transparency-report-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/2024/09/25/twitter-x-account-suspensions... tripled. They just want to protect nazi speech, like I said in the downvoted comment. I don't care what your vibes are here. They aren't even against actual anti-semitism. Happy merchant memes, george soros conspiracies, protocols stuff, that's all A-ok because it's nazi stuff. If you have the wrong opinion on israel palestine, it's the concentration camp for you. The first group the nazis sent were social democrats, peace activists, journalists ... The famous nazi book burning was at an lgbt institute. I mean they're just doing nazi shit. I don't know why this isn't clear.
      - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
        Thanks for looking that up. Without knowing the denominator (# of accounts, # of posts, # of new accounts), I'm not sure what to make of it. Even then, we want the subset of bans that were for political reasons (i.e., supporting Labour is fine, supporting Reform is hate speech). According to the actual report (which can be found here: https://transparency.x.com/content/dam/transparency-twitter/2024/x-global-transparency-report-h1.pdf https://transparency.x.com/content/dam/transparency-twitter/...), of 5,296,870 account suspensions only 2,361 were for "hateful conduct", while 57,185 were "violent and hateful entities" and 1,102,778 were for "abuse and harassment". Eyeing the categories, those are the only ones that seem plausible for political motivation. So it's some subset of that 1,162,324 (22% of total) that we're interested in. I would bet the vast, vast majority of those either aren't politically motivated, or are politically motivated but in such a way that virtually everyone would agree (e.g., torturing puppies for fun). And, of course, among politically-motivated bans, not all will be in support of Red Team / against Blue Team. Some will be bans of Red Team supporters, and for some the valence won't be clear.
        kristopolous 2y ago
        That's all speculative. Musk Twitter brought a bunch of far right provocateurs like Alex Jones Back on and increased the bans by 3x. There's more people leaving than coming to the platform. That's what we do know. As far as "Red/Blue" that's not current. Instead we've got an establishment party, the Democrats, a disempowered left, a disempowered conservative party, and a party that does Nazi shit, the Republicans. That's why a bunch of the Bush era conservatives lined up behind the Democrats, conservative and right wing are Not the same just like liberal and left wing are not
        NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
        Nothing in my grandparent comment is speculative. I literally type out the data and discuss what additional information we would have to have in order to arrive at something approaching a meaningful estimate of the quantity we are both interested in. As for Red/Blue not being current, I'm not an expert. The only bone I would pick is the Republicans aren't doing "Nazi shit". Nazi / Fascist used to mean something, you know. It seems like people are starting to use those words to mean "authoritarian" or something along those lines.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    This is a general argument and has nothing to do with Elon Musk. He capitalizes on a weak position some of his political opponents bring forward. Not giving him the opportunity for that would have cost nothing... on the contrary.
- newAccount2025 2y ago
  Defending all speech however deplorable would be consistent and defensible. The administration isn’t doing that. They are targeting speech they don’t like. Don’t speak out against our genocide in Gaza or be deported/expelled. Don’t share your pronouns or lose your job. Etc.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
    HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization. It is the U.S. government's job to keep out foreigners who overtly do things like support terrorist organizations, do human trafficking, etc. It's quite simple, IMHO, and not a free speech issue. Americans don't owe entry to everyone who shows up at their borders, nor do they owe them a full suite of rights and legal protections once they're admitted.
    - aziaziazi 2y ago
      How does that relates to the parents post ? For sure you can understand Hamas is a terrorist organisation AND any the same time that some wants to talk about the genocide in Gaza. Also, using a terrorism judgement as an argument is a bit weak because it’s subjective, and because our western gouvernement do trade times to times with terrorist organisations. Heck my own countries is classified as a terrosist and I’m totally free to come visit the USA (which are themselves a terrorist state). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism
      - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
        > For sure you can understand Hamas is a terrorist organisation AND any the same time that some wants to talk about the genocide in Gaza. Totally. The pro-Palestine protesters at U.S. universities are often overtly pro-HAMAS too (or instead).
        kristopolous 2y ago
fuckbrownpeople 2y ago
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mtsr 2y ago

Also called freedom from consequences. Free speech makes sense in a free society, freedom from consequences does not. Yet that's what they're calling for.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago

[flagged]

matthewdgreen 2y ago
I was one of the people who briefly tried to take right wing “free speech” arguments at face value, eg when Elon Musk bought Twitter. Almost instantly he began allowing white supremacists and actual declared neo-Nazis back onto the platform, while kicking people off for any speech he didn’t like. I don’t think the claim “the recent right wing enthusiasm for ‘free speech’” does, in fact, selectively benefit Nazis and white supremacists” is actually wrong when you evaluate the effects.
- NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
  Would you argue that the "kicking off" is more or less intense under Elon vs. the other guy? My impression that the rate of censorship overall has plummeted. Pre-Elon, it was easy to get banned for wrongthing. People would gang up on wrongthinkers, mass-report them, etc. I wonder what the rates of actual bans have been.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    https://fortune.com/2024/09/25/twitter-x-account-suspensions-triple-transparency-report-elon-musk/ https://fortune.com/2024/09/25/twitter-x-account-suspensions... tripled. They just want to protect nazi speech, like I said in the downvoted comment. I don't care what your vibes are here. They aren't even against actual anti-semitism. Happy merchant memes, george soros conspiracies, protocols stuff, that's all A-ok because it's nazi stuff. If you have the wrong opinion on israel palestine, it's the concentration camp for you. The first group the nazis sent were social democrats, peace activists, journalists ... The famous nazi book burning was at an lgbt institute. I mean they're just doing nazi shit. I don't know why this isn't clear.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
      Thanks for looking that up. Without knowing the denominator (# of accounts, # of posts, # of new accounts), I'm not sure what to make of it. Even then, we want the subset of bans that were for political reasons (i.e., supporting Labour is fine, supporting Reform is hate speech). According to the actual report (which can be found here: https://transparency.x.com/content/dam/transparency-twitter/2024/x-global-transparency-report-h1.pdf https://transparency.x.com/content/dam/transparency-twitter/...), of 5,296,870 account suspensions only 2,361 were for "hateful conduct", while 57,185 were "violent and hateful entities" and 1,102,778 were for "abuse and harassment". Eyeing the categories, those are the only ones that seem plausible for political motivation. So it's some subset of that 1,162,324 (22% of total) that we're interested in. I would bet the vast, vast majority of those either aren't politically motivated, or are politically motivated but in such a way that virtually everyone would agree (e.g., torturing puppies for fun). And, of course, among politically-motivated bans, not all will be in support of Red Team / against Blue Team. Some will be bans of Red Team supporters, and for some the valence won't be clear.
      - kristopolous 2y ago
        That's all speculative. Musk Twitter brought a bunch of far right provocateurs like Alex Jones Back on and increased the bans by 3x. There's more people leaving than coming to the platform. That's what we do know. As far as "Red/Blue" that's not current. Instead we've got an establishment party, the Democrats, a disempowered left, a disempowered conservative party, and a party that does Nazi shit, the Republicans. That's why a bunch of the Bush era conservatives lined up behind the Democrats, conservative and right wing are Not the same just like liberal and left wing are not
        NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
        Nothing in my grandparent comment is speculative. I literally type out the data and discuss what additional information we would have to have in order to arrive at something approaching a meaningful estimate of the quantity we are both interested in. As for Red/Blue not being current, I'm not an expert. The only bone I would pick is the Republicans aren't doing "Nazi shit". Nazi / Fascist used to mean something, you know. It seems like people are starting to use those words to mean "authoritarian" or something along those lines.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  This is a general argument and has nothing to do with Elon Musk. He capitalizes on a weak position some of his political opponents bring forward. Not giving him the opportunity for that would have cost nothing... on the contrary.
newAccount2025 2y ago
Defending all speech however deplorable would be consistent and defensible. The administration isn’t doing that. They are targeting speech they don’t like. Don’t speak out against our genocide in Gaza or be deported/expelled. Don’t share your pronouns or lose your job. Etc.
- NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
  HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization. It is the U.S. government's job to keep out foreigners who overtly do things like support terrorist organizations, do human trafficking, etc. It's quite simple, IMHO, and not a free speech issue. Americans don't owe entry to everyone who shows up at their borders, nor do they owe them a full suite of rights and legal protections once they're admitted.
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    How does that relates to the parents post ? For sure you can understand Hamas is a terrorist organisation AND any the same time that some wants to talk about the genocide in Gaza. Also, using a terrorism judgement as an argument is a bit weak because it’s subjective, and because our western gouvernement do trade times to times with terrorist organisations. Heck my own countries is classified as a terrosist and I’m totally free to come visit the USA (which are themselves a terrorist state). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism
    - NoImmatureAdHom 2y ago
      > For sure you can understand Hamas is a terrorist organisation AND any the same time that some wants to talk about the genocide in Gaza. Totally. The pro-Palestine protesters at U.S. universities are often overtly pro-HAMAS too (or instead).
      - kristopolous 2y ago

fuckbrownpeople 2y ago

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